About the Natsume HM games...

SNES, HM64, BTN, STH, A Wonderful Life, Another Wonderful Life, AWL:SE, Magical Melody, Puzzle de HM, Tree of Tranquility, Animal Parade, Frantic Farming, Hero of Leaf Valley, My Little Shop, Seeds of Memories, Lil' Farmers, Light of Hope, Popolocrois: SoS, and Doraemon: SoS.
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I've yet to play any of them, but still keep up their development in the hopes that I might finally have my interest piqued enough (not happened yet) but I'd like to ask some questions to the people who have.

Mainly, has Natsume actually shown an indication that they're listening to fans and trying to improve the series, or is it (as it appears to me, from the outside) the case that they're just using the HM brand as a money-grab and putting out cheap, sub-par games in order to capitalize on a known and loved brand? The games have looked cheap and bland in almost every way, with the only interesting innovation (the terraforming) being removed. The reuse of characters and resources doesn't hep that image, and the frequency of the games (4 games in 3 years?) also contributes to that. I can't shake the feeling that they're just cashing in rather than taking the time to create a lovingly-made title that actually strives to be a good game.

From the looks of it, major improvements have included adding actual towns, adding a gift-giving system, and having more potential people to woo, but all of that seems incredibly basic and ideally would have been there from the beginning, so It's hard for me to give Natsume points for that.

I want to be wrong about them, but the current state of affairs just looks bleak, and it's really quite sad to see as a long-time Harvest Moon fan :(
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I agree things are looking bleak for Natsume HM. With the competition coming from SOS, Stardew Valley, and now the Verdant Skies (Link: http://fogu.com/hmforum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=170480 ) HM needs to up their game and fast. Quality will win over quantity when it comes to HM fans. They need to stop relying on the name.

Please don't get me wrong. I enjoyed Skytree and would hate to see HM tank. Just hope that the increase in competition lead to better farming games across the board and not just more games.
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I don't know a lot about it, but I feel sorry for Natsume. Harvest Moon games made up about half of everything they did. I wish they had been able to create a more interesting game when they decided to continue on their own when they lost the right to localize Bokujou Monogatari.

I really liked the farming part of The Lost Valley, because I loved getting mutations and dealing with soil type and elevation (though I was not entirely sold on the whole Minecraft style of landscape manipulation, though I love the idea of being able to alter the terrain...just not in ugly digital-looking blocks) but everything else about it bored me. The art style is so clunky and ugly, and the characters are awfully lackluster, the events totally uninteresting. I was impressed with Skytree Village at first because it was clear that they had listened to several major complaints/suggestions made by the players of their game, as they added a village and reduced the gigantic bobble-heads the characters had in TLV, but...it wasn't enough for me. The events were still boring to me and the characters still uninteresting and the art style...yuck. Though that may merely be personal taste. All in all, I just feel like the bokumono games are way more detailed and have far more depth and have a greater variety of things to do.

As for Light of Hope...I do like that you get to rebuild the town. But they are using all the same characters AGAIN, and I didn't like them to begin with...they're dull. They're even using the same protagonist model/sprite. Why is the very same guy/girl in a new world, making a new life, right after revamping the world of the previous game? At the very least the protagonist should have been a new person with each new game, imo.

I think Natsume IS trying hard to make a game that we want. Of course they are...this is probably pretty important to them. It's just...they latch onto the wrong things, as I see it. It's been said that they've heard their playerbase say they liked how there were recurring characters in the beloved early Harvest Moon (back when Harvest Moon still meant Bokujou Monogatari, that is) games. And so they've just kept bringing back the same characters, and I don't think that's the spirit of what was meant by people who liked to see some recurring characters.

It feels like each game is the same game with the plot framework shifted so that you have a few different goals, and everything else is the same.

I actually want to see them succeed. We NEED more good farming games. Right now, Bokumono is the only farming-life-simulation series I know of that I actually love. But I had rather that Natsume went more original than continuing to try to rekindle nostalgic love of the older HM games in their current players. I feel that what they are doing right now is not working. I can't get into the games at all.
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The fact that they're not willing to commit to any release date seems to imply it won't be out this year, so it'll be 4 games in 4 years.
Which is on par with classic Harvest Moon, both in the Victor Interactive days and Marvelous days (http://natsume.com/current_game/games/hm20th/index.html)

That being said, are they listening to fans? IMO yeah. Skytree was better in basically every way to Lost Valley. It was patched. It had DLC. The game was cared for post-launch. Seeds has a lot of things people have been asking for (old school mines, more events, multiple kids, and they grow old enough help on the farm). While we don't know a ton about it Light looks like a great step up from Seeds.

I like seeing characters come back like they did in the old games. Personally I don't care either way about gifting and if that's a make or break for a buying decision...weird, but k? There's always been a different number of marriage candidates, as little as 3. Even no marriage. There's probably very little that's going to change your mind seeing as how you call them cheap and subpar without actually playing them. If you don't like them whatever as pointed out there's lots of other farming games to play. You don't need to justify why you don't want to play them.
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I particularly enjoyed their 3DS games mostly because I really like plants, and those games focused heavily on that. It also helps that I'm not too bothered by cartoony character designs or interactivity (as long as it's not extremely dumbed down like in Magical Melody :shifty: ).

Seeds of Memories was also quite fun, it mostly only looked very rough. Despite having such a huge field, planting crops ended up being a bit useless though (mining is way easier and faster), I hope that's better balanced in Light of Hope. It already looks like a huge upgrade from SoM either way.

People often forget this, but even before the split, Harvest Moon were always been "decent to good" niche titles at best; always the weird-but-cute kid, never the cheerleader. Most of us love them to death because they clicked with us at a young age, maybe because we liked the plants, maybe it's the animals, maybe it's the dating sim elements, or something else.

You could say Natsume's attempts have clicked better with me lately. They still have a long way to go though, and I wish them the best of luck with that.
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My posts are always too long. -___-

This may be more to the OP's actual topic. Yes, I definitely think that Natsume listens to their market. Our opinions here in not-Japan are never going to have this much impact on Bokumono, but common opinions and desires are definitely being heard and implemented where possible by Natsume.

Now, just because they do that, doesn't mean it'll end up as people want...but, they ARE listening. For sure. If you send them a message, they'll actually read it and, if you're not the ONLY person who is saying that they wish a green mohawk were a hairstyling option, then you've got a decent chance of actually being able to put a green mohawk on your character in the next game. That's how it looks to me, going by the changes they make in each game. They're trying hard. For some people they're succeeding, and for others...not so much. I don't know where the balance lies, whether they're making enough of a success to continue this way for long, or not.

There's a lot I'm disappointed by with the Natsume-made HM games, but I do think that people should try them if they love farming games and are not so limited by budget that they can only afford a handful of games a year. If money were that tight then yeah, you have to be super-choosy and go with only games you as close as possible to KNOW you'll love, but if that's not the situation then I think they're worth trying. Just go into it looking at it as what it is: a new series made by an American company, not an old one that's been being put out in Japan for two decades.

For myself the biggest thing would be if they could make the games in an art style I didn't find ugly. At least it looks nice and colourful in Light of Hope...
Last edited by Kikki on Aug 19, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I enjoyed the two 3DS games for what they are and while I like the formula, it will need to be properly built upon to keep the series interesting enough for people to try. We'll have to see how the series continues.

With that being said, I think it's time Natsume started localizing more games instead of putting so many of their hopes on keeping their farming sim money maker going. I see them putting so much emphasis on their efforts with Bokujou Monogatari in the past and trying to use it as a measuring tool to their new original series, which is kinda 50/50 backfiring/working. The amount of times i've had to explain the split is crazy. Some people get mad, some people get confused, it's a mess.

It's great to see that they're picking up the River City 3DS games (thought they would never leave Japan at this point in the 3DS life cycle) but I feel like it's not enough. There are a slew of 'family friendly' games on the 3DS that are ripe for the localization picking, but will ultimately end up staying in Japan. Natsume is niche and they seem to pride themselves in that. I was honestly surprised that MocoMoco Friends got picked up by Aksys as I felt it screamed Natsume when I played the Japanese demo of it (just look at some of the DS games they localized).

However, licensing fees, communication, and translation are all big factors in the process of localization, so maybe they prefer to play it safe in the meantime until they no longer can. A lot of my favourite gaming experiences have come from them and their efforts, so I naturally want to root for them, but i'm also wary of their future.
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i liked skytree village a bunch, but i do think natsume should've done more to make their games their own thing, rather than making them look like bokumono fan games. the fact that the game play between natsu-hm and bokumono is so different is best aspect to the natsu-hm games, but they should've done more. i know they own the rights to terms like "harvest goddess" and "harvest sprites", but that doesn't mean they need to use them.

also, they need to hire a dialect coach. they've yet to give a character an accent that doesn't make them sound like an offensive stereotype/cartoon character. i know they're not supposed to be real people, but there's a reason actual cartoons don't even have characters say « Cow Poopoo » like "ooh la la!" anymore
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Kam wrote: i know they're not supposed to be real people, but there's a reason actual cartoons don't even have characters say « Cow Poopoo » like "ooh la la!" anymore
So true. Poor Cyril was a cute character in his way, but urgh, the way he talked...

It would have been cool if they'd really shot off in their own direction. Sure, some of bokumono's framework would be good to build on...but what if they had, perhaps, made the main character a college student in the city who has a community garden, or an apartment balcony or rooftop garden? Or if they were someone who'd decided to live off-the-grid, whether in a town/city or out of it? Something with an angle that feels fresher, more suited to a brand new series.

Or since they went with mutations...why not make the character a scientist and give them a lab and let them genetically engineer awesome fantasy mutations instead of leaving it to RNG? Those are just semi-random suggestions but...I think they'd be able to appeal to a wider market if they went truly original. And refined their art style. (I'm shallow about looks. If I don't like the game's looks, it's very hard for me to get into it.)
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Well, so far the only Natsume/Tabot Harvest Moon I've played is Seeds of Memories. It's... not at all impressive. But I can't really compare it to the others since I haven't played them myself. I've still seen plenty from them though, including gameplay of the one that'll come out for Nintendo Switch. It still all looks the same, pretty much. The only thing good I can say about Natsume's games so far is that the artwork for the characters is starting to look a lot better. It was all just so unpleasant to look at in the beginning.

I honestly don't really care if Natsume's games do bad since they're not the real thing. To me, they're just knockoffs that are legal. As long as Marvelous keeps making games, everything is fine in my world. I keep watch of Natsume's games though because I am curious about it. I want to know if they'll ever get better or at least attempt to change their game's look.
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If I had more cash to spare I would buy Skytree Village to try it out, but I don't and my small reserves are already targeted for other games. I just can't prioritize Natsume HM games because... well, the quality is just not there. I'm not into the graphics that much to complaint about that and the childish style kind of works for me, but it seems the game is still lacking in most regards.

Maybe it will get better in the future, for sure Skytree seems far better than Lost Valley, but I have little faith, Natsume partners aren't just great studios at all and there isn't much money flowing into the projects... nor love, so I really doubt they can improve much more compared to Skytree Village, but maybe they will prove me wrong in the future, I don't know! Light of Hope (or I might actually call it actually Light of Dissapointment) definitively doesn't seem in the right direction, though.

I also kind of dislike what Natsume did to Marvelous by not selling them the Harvest Moon rights and trying to do their own thing using somebody else's brand (not in the legal sense I know, but yes in the practical sense), there is still plenty of people confused at the Story of Seasons split and that is bad for everyone. Bokumomo games have been far better localized by XSEED (even if it is still not perfect) than by whatever Natsume archived, just to add salt.
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I'm confused why Natsume gets all the « Puppy Doodoo » from the breakup and Marvelous gets...none? Both companies have said in interviews that Marvelous told Natsume they were no longer going to work with them. Unless you have links to other stories with more news, that's all we have to go by. We have no way of knowing if they asked for the name, or wanted to buy it, and no way of knowing if Natsume refused to sell or offered it. I remember someone saying something insightful on GameFAQs about it -- Marvelous is a company that bought a company that bought a company; they aren't the original developers any more than Natsume is. As to whether one company is doing better than the other, both SoS games have typos and technical issues, in more or less the same volume as other games ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Nyara wrote:I also kind of dislike what Natsume did to Marvelous by not selling them the Harvest Moon rights and trying to do their own thing using somebody else's brand (not in the legal sense I know, but yes in the practical sense),...
Marvelous changed the name of the series as it moved the localization internally using its company, Xseed, that it had purchased. This was already explained in an interview by the Natsume president. This "omg natsume didn't sell the rights" rumor really needs to die sooner rather than later.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/03/18/ha ... t-natsume/
In this case, Marvelous took the decision out of our hands, and we didn’t have any option but to face the fact that we were no longer able to get the license for the game from them. Therefore, we took their decision as a great opportunity to open the door for us to develop our own Harvest Moon to take the Harvest Moon franchise to the next level.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... t-has-sown
However, that business was thrown into upheaval several years ago due to a mix of intellectual property rights. Harvest Moon was originally released in Japan as Bokujo Monogatari, but it was Maekawa who gave the series its English name when Natsume first localized it. While the Bokujo Monogatari developer Victor Interactive Software was acquired by Japanese publisher Marvelous and changed names, the partnership continued on new games until 2014, when Marvelous decided it would be better served by publishing the Bokujo Monogatari games in the West through its own subsidiary, XSEED Games. It couldn't do so under the Harvest Moon name as Natsume owned that, so it re-launched the series as Story of Seasons, leaving Natsume with a valuable brand, but no game to sell using it.
"That was a big surprise to us, especially to me," Maekawa said. "It was a really scary thing to me because we'd spent time and effort to establish a no-name farming simulation game to become one of the best-known farming simulation games for the entire family. We had tons of loyal Harvest Moon fans, but we couldn't simply say to those loyal fans that there's no Harvest Moon in the future. Fortunately, we learned and accumulated lots of know-how as to what Harvest Moon fans like and what makes them happy by localizing and publishing Harvest Moon games for the past 16 years, so we took that goodbye as a good opportunity for us, based upon our own experience, to take this franchise to the next step so we could continue to make all Harvest Moon fans very happy."
Marvelous has developed their series into something that is more social; a more complex marriage system, easier farming, more (almost too many) villagers, challenge storyline (less so in Trio than in SoS1), and so on. It is distinctly different than what its development teams produced when partnered with Natsume.

Natsume's version has gone the other way. Marriage is simpler, more complex farming (hybrid crops, etc.), easier storyline for younger audiences (their "make everyone happy" company moto), and so on. Personally, I feel it is becoming too easy and those of us who have been long-time players of the series are getting aged out (so to speak), but that may be what uniquely helps to set it apart from the Bokumono series.

The Anonymous Fish also makes a good point; Marvelous is still involved with the localization and its text hiccups and bug additions. Moving from Natsume to XSeed may change the flavor and feel of the English text, but you're still dealing with Marvelous at the end of it all.
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*Sigh* MORE whining about Natsume? -_-

Every single complaint I see about Natsume's Harvest Moon can just as easily be applied to the Bokujou Monogatari games.
Anonymous Fish wrote:or is it (as it appears to me, from the outside) the case that they're just using the HM brand as a money-grab and putting out cheap, sub-par games in order to capitalize on a known and loved brand? The frequency of the games (4 games in 3 years?) also contributes to that. I can't shake the feeling that they're just cashing in rather than taking the time to create a lovingly-made title that actually strives to be a good game.
Lenna36 wrote: Quality will win over quantity when it comes to HM fans.


Um, no. That's just a big contradiction to yourselves. Look at the release dates for the Bokujou games. In particular, the ones released for the DS They were released 1-2 years apart, with around 10 games for the DS. Obviously this is quantity over quality, since they still have glitches and spelling errors in their translations.

Anonymous Fish wrote: The reuse of characters and resources doesn't hep that image
Kikki wrote: But they are using all the same characters AGAIN
Yet this was perfectly okay for Island of Happiness/Sunshine Islands and Tree of Tranquility/Animal Parade?
Kikki wrote: They're even using the same protagonist model/sprite. Why is the very same guy/girl in a new world, making a new life, right after revamping the world of the previous game? At the very least the protagonist should have been a new person with each new game, imo.
Yeah, cause its not as if Bokujou Monogatari reused the same design for their protagonist...oh wait, how many games had Pete's character design for the main character? At least 7. Mike and Sabrina have only been in Skytree Village and Light of Hope, which at least look different, with one being 3D and the other being 2D. Likewise with TLV!Pete and TLV!Claire only being in two. A 3D game for 3DS and Seeds of Memories for Android- two different styles of games on two different systems. I can just as easily make this complaint about Mark and Chelsea from Island of Happiness and Sunshine Islands- the same style of game for the exact same system.


As for the "bobble-head" character models, did you not play Island of Happiness-Tale of Two Towns? Their sprites were all bobble heads. Again, something was never an issue when Marvellous did it, but Natsume gets hated on for doing it.


All I see here is double standards and hypocrisy. The way you keep clutching at straws to find fault with these games is really pathetic.


Now, to answer to OP's question/passive aggressive rant- Are Natsume listening to Harvest Moon fans?

Yes.

People complained about the lack of a town- boom. There's a town
People complained about the SD character models- boom. Actual proportions.

So yes. Natsume is willing to listen to the fans, as long as they're making LEGITIMATE points instead of whining and nitpicking about stuff that Marvellous has had a free pass to do for decades.

If you hate Natsume's Harvest Moon games so much, just play something else. No one is forcing you to play their games. Seriously, you sound like those weeaboo elitists who won't stop complaining about English Dubbing in Anime.
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Since you quote me three times in your nasty comment, I'm taking it personally. (The 'bobble-head' issue counts as quote three, in my books.)

People's complaints are their own. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them invalid, and having things they dislike about Natsume's game while enjoying Bokumono games does not make people hypocrites (not that there can't be any hypocritical arguments, because there could be, but I can't speak for the arguments of others, only my own). The only outright unfair thing people have said here is that Natsume was being unfair not to sell the name, or however you should put it, because we don't actually know whether that is true or not. (Though personally I have never said that anyway.)

Also, I am NOT an old-school Bokumono fan, so most of your arguments have no meaning to me. I didn't even start to like this series until ANB. So 'Pete'? I don't even know who you're talking about. And NO, I did not play the games you mention, because like I said...not a fan of bokumono games until ANB! I disliked it before then. But why would I whine and complain about old games when I like the current ones?

And I DON'T like the current Natsume games (which makes sense if they are trying to make them like old-school Bokumono games because I DON'T LIKE OLD-SCHOOL BOKUMONO GAMES), and I think they are getting worse rather than better, since I had some things I liked to start with but there appear to be none left now, except that the town-building might be fun. Saying what you like and/or dislike about a current game is what these forums are about. Cherubae stepped in here to correct a misconception, but you're just being flat-out rude, Trurotaketwo, with your name-calling and snideness. It is not a crime to have a differing opinion from you.

I don't regret anything I have said in any of my posts here and stand by all of it, because rereading them, I meant all of it. I clearly SAID that I felt Natsume is listening to their market, though I also said that I don't think they're succeeding in making a good game. That's my opinion based on games I have purchased and played and given a very fair shot to. (I have bought ALL of Natsume's self-made HM games so far but have decided that I will probably not try Light of Hope based on my first-hand experience with the previous three games.) Great farming, I've said, but the social aspects are lackluster and uninteresting and leave me dissatisfied with Natsume's games. I'd rather play ANB, SoS or Trio. I don't agree that there is any hypocrisy in that.
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