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Getaris
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Marvelous hasn't really made a character that changes their appearance based on your gender.

With Inari and Jamie, they made gender ambiguous designs and implied their gender subtext.

So it wouldn't be entirely unoriginal.
 
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Blue Rose
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Getaris wrote:
Marvelous hasn't really made a character that changes their appearance based on your gender.

With Inari and Jamie, they made gender ambiguous designs and implied their gender subtext.

So it wouldn't be entirely unoriginal.


I believe Inari did have some small, subtle differences in their artwork not to mention they had different wedding attires. But yes Natsume would be the first to have super visual changes in appearances based on gender. But I still think it's pretty obvious they got the concept from Inari and their popularity, and I feel like was a bad idea to do. At least at this time.
 
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Getaris
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Last time I asked, Inari's differences are apparently present only in their official artwork.

To be honest Soliei reminds me a lot more of Jamie. Could be the purple and pink.
 
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RopeMaidenKirie
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Getaris wrote:
Last time I asked, Inari's differences are apparently present only in their official artwork.


There are differences in the sprites; mostly the eyes and they are very subtle, but they are there.
 
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KonekoChan
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 3:00 pm 
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ChaosAzerothCat wrote:

No we're talking like reading tons of blind hate is exhausting and it's hard to take large chunks of it seriously when a good chunk is from people who just literally do not want Natsume to make game no matter what they do because they're Natsume. It's possible to express hate, when no matter what they do people have flat out said they want Natsume to burn from day 1... Yeah that definitely comes off as hate.


What is "blind hate"? Are you sure you're not also blinded? There's two sides to every story: people aren't just ragging on Natsume because they don't like them. They've made business decision after business decision that's backed them into this corner. Forgive me if I'm a little nasty towards them: it's not like being sweet has gotten us anywhere anyway. They've made bad business decisions since day 1! Since before they lost Bokumono, even!

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And people can feel the way they feel, but it's a two way street. You can't go and say what you want about games and go it's all valid criticism and expect others to not also be allowed to express their feeling too.

Who's stopping you? You totally are expressing your feelings? And I'm challenging that, just like you're challenging me. Wouldn't be much of an argument if you happened to just wave away all criticism, would it.

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I don't really care if people criticize, what I'm tired of is the large amount of flat saying they just want Natsume to burn. I'm tired of no matter what they do it's never good BECAUSE they're them. Not every issue is that, I'm not trying to be like ooh everyone that hates these games is like that. But I've seen enough people flat SAYING THEY HATE NATSUME BY VIRTUE OF THEM MAKING GAMES that I'm really weary and wary. I'm also tired of being told what a dumb person who should feel bad I am for enjoying the games. If enough people are going to directly express hate and judgement I'm going to bring that up.

But it didn't start out like that. It's become like this through poor handling of localizations, and then poor handling of their own games. People feel this way for a reason, and it's been built up for years and years and YEARS. How many times can you defend a company that keeps stepping into « Cow Poopoo »?

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I think we all agree that this was poorly handled and that they could potentially fix some of this by actually saying more. They might be trying to come out with a way to do so that isn't just stuffing their other foot in their mouths. Might just be not wanting to reveal too much too, that's possible. But I think we're all at least a little critical of this for sure, and other aspects of these games. But it's possible to be critcal without being aggressive all the time.

If they make a statement BEFORE a large game reporting site gets a hold of this, I'll eat my own socks.

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When I read the air spray comment though, it comes across to me as a well forget having a place where people don't come in aggressively downing these games. You're not doing anything to Natsume posting this to some non-social media fansite, it's the average fans that are being affected. Which is bloody tiring.

And I'm voicing the opinions of multiple "average fans" that just aren't speaking up here because they're non confrontational. You are not the only voice that matters. And I'm sorry my metaphor didn't land. :'(

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I'm getting tired of dealing with this stuff in general, but this was about the last place where people might butt heads and criticize it and defend it but most of the time it wasn't that extreme and the bigger tiffs resolved fine. This aggressive wave is exhausting.

Personally I don't really care if people criticize it, but there's a difference between criticizing and attacking. There's a difference between criticizing and shitting on. Acting like there's not does a great disservice to actual critical thinking and discussion. Trust me, I've been on both extremes of things (people saying you actually legit can't criticize something at all and getting far more aggressive than I realized thinking I was just constructively criticizing like that's way too easy to do) and I've realized it's a fine line sometimes but there's a difference.

IDK

Here's what this boils down to for me: I would LOVE for Natsume to get their « Cow Poopoo » together and create a decent farming sim game that could compete with the Bokumono titles because the waiting gaps between games are just so long sometimes. I'd love to have another game to play that isn't Stardew Valley. I was upset with Natsume when this all first happened, but I still had a glimmer of hope they could turn it all around. And I still do, because if I didn't I wouldn't be on here at all and instead I'd be laughing at all of this because I didn't care.

In the end, I want Natsume to look at their past mistakes and not keep making them, because if they suddenly stopped doing stupid things and made awesome games I'd totally buy them! I really, really would!

My critiscm, as jaded and "mean" as it might sound, is intended to get a point across.

So..... What are you doing for them?
 
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Night Owl
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 3:12 pm 
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So, just found out about the Soleil thing today, and wow. I... I just want to know who thought this was a good idea? Who okayed this? Of all the routes they could have gone with Soleil, why this way? I'm just... Baffled. I'd rather not see Natsume burn in the court of public opinion, but this was just a terribly mismanaged reveal. And they really didn't do themselves any favors with the whole "But they aren't human" thing. That's kinda missing the point of the whole thing. Soleil looks like a baby, and for all we know right now, they could very well act like one too. The use of "grow up" in the character bio doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but with how this whole situation has gone so far, it's a bit up in the air.

Frankly, I just don't know why they thought this was a good idea. At all. No one at any point stopped to think that maybe they need to go back and redo something? Whether it's Soleil's concept as a whole or the wording of the reveal itself. Why go with: Magical candidate that you can apparently help "grow up" and later marry? No one thought about the implications of this? I don't know which is worse honestly. That they realized the implications and went ahead with the reveal without trying to phrase things better or even show off Soleil's adult form first or if they were just completely blind to the implications due to tunnel vision.

This whole thing is just a "Why" situation for me. I'd love to see Natsume succeed. In fact, I want them to. But they completely bungled this and it burned them really badly. And if/when a major news site picks this up, oh boy, that's gonna start a forest fire. It's going to go over really badly with people.
 
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ThatGirlRena
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 3:28 pm 
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All arguing aside, I think we can all agree that the "child to adult" thing is a misstep at best, yes?

Because that is seriously bugging me...there was no call nor need for any marriage candidate to be a child at any point, for any reason...unless MAYBE your character was ALSO a child at the time, ala BTN/FoMT opening.
 
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Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Getaris wrote:
I honestly think they just grossly mishandled their reveal, and I seriously hope CeeCee doesn't get in trouble for it.

They should've left them as just new characters, eventually reveal their true "adult" forms, and then, later, reveal they're marriage candidates.

Build expectation, reveal the "beautiful anime people" version of them, make players want to marry them (instead of adopting them) before letting them know they can.

You simply don't go from baby to wife in the same sentence. That is a problem.


Is CeeCee even back? I thought Tumblr said she would be gone until April. I haven't seen anything saying she's returned.
 
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Getaris
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 4:35 pm 
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I have no idea. Didn't know she was on a vacation either. If there's some intern taking over her duties, then they must be in a bit of trouble right now.
 
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Cherubae
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Yes, Ceecee is on sabbatical for a while, so the social media postings haven't been written by her for the past few weeks.

Thank you all for keeping the conversations regarding this latest news generally civilized compared to other online social platforms :)

I'm theorizing that the wording of the reveal was just a bit awkward and not actually what they were trying to communicate. Natsume is basically a Japanese company with a Japanese development team, that happens to have American employees that, I'm hoping, keep things in check from an English speaker's point of view.
 
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Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Yeah, gonna disagree with the statement of pandering to pedophiles as well. I firmly believe this is just a case of "want their cake and eat it too." They wanted a cute chibi like-supernatural character cause they do best in "cute" stuff and wanted them to be romanceable as well, probably with some kind of "multiple forms" perk of some kind. But they « Snuggly Bunny » up astronomically. Cause you don't make children-like characters available for marriage. That's basic common sense.


I'm sorry if I made myself unclear but I wasn't saying that Natsume is trying to pander specifically, I'm basically just saying the "not human" argument is incredibly poor and is used to just get money from pedophiles... That's what it seems like to me. Like I'm attacking that argument itself (the statement).
 
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Getaris
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Cherubae wrote:
Thank you all for keeping the conversations regarding this latest news generally civilized compared to other online social platforms :)



(slowly puts away the pitchfork and torch)
 
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ChaosAzerothCat
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Getaris wrote:
Cherubae wrote:
Thank you all for keeping the conversations regarding this latest news generally civilized compared to other online social platforms :)



(slowly puts away the pitchfork and torch)


OR, just spitballing here, we could use those for roasting marshmallows? Just a though. :lol:
 
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Getaris
Post Posted: Mar 21, 2018 11:39 pm 
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Why of course, you can't have an angry mob without marshmallows.
 
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Bluie
Post Posted: Mar 22, 2018 3:51 am 
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CeeCee is gonna come back from her vacation to this shitstorm, ho boy.
 
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