Getting too told for HMs

**Posted:** Apr 05, 2012 12:21 am

As strange as it sounds, I really loved the cast of ToTT. No one in that game earned my ire whatsoever.

And that's what made it even more painful that they felt so underdeveloped compared to more thoroughly-produced titles. There were parts where they told us they were "more than they seemed", but I wished much of this was better expressed through action/events instead of "Oh, I'm really more this and that! Take my word for it!"

I guess I might be in NurseFin's boat. Looking at the game now, despite liking Michelle quite a bit, I feel underwhelmed by what I know for now.

Maybe once I get a localized copy of the game myself and finally get my hands on a 3DS, I'll be on the same level of enthuiasm towards the game as you.

As for now, the sad thing is that the last great game with this formula to me on the handhelds was RUNE FACTORY 3. While Marvelous has gone a little soft with the handhelds, apparently Neverland is more daring in changing up things and experimenting. They may not always get it right, but they've brought a few different things to each Rune Factory game, and their mixing up has proven far more compelling then Marvelous playing it safe and gradually watering down the experience.

It's a tough call whether you're getting too old, though. I thought some of the earlier games were greater in comparison, too, but at the same time ToT and AP felt like different steps in the right direction. I don't know if it's faith, but I guess I have cautious optimism that Marvelous might start taking more of these steps, and it sounds like they're finally getting their act together when they made LoB.

And that's my rambling for the night.

**Posts:** 353

I don't think you'll ever be too old. I've played these games since the SNES days so I have gone through years of not playing any HM and then suddenly I get the need to play and I will spend a good few months like that.

I think the worst thing is when you get older and you're at work you have a co-worker looking over your shoulder while you're on your break and they say something like, "Hey a farming game? Is that like Farmville?" I really have to bite my tongue and go.. "yeah..." (Damnit Harvest Moon was FIRST! RAWR!)

Taking a break is definitely the best option as you can easily get bored, but then it's so nice to go back to it after the break. The peace and non-stress environment from Harvest Moon is a nice change from real life.

**Posts:** 3793

Mz D wrote:

(Damnit Harvest Moon was FIRST! RAWR!)

Actually SimFarm is by a few years. =P

The characters have always been pretty repetitive in their dialogue. So it's not unique to ToTT. You'll find more variety in different places but good characters are few and far between imo. The quality is also something that has been decreasing for the most part. From AP and on I have grown really bored really quickly. Course I haven't touched ToTT yet so it's just AP, HoLV, and GrB.

Taking a break from the series though as some people suggested I concur that it's a good way to enjoy the games again. I haven't played an HM game in... MONTHS. Then I picked up MFOMT again and enjoying it again. So maybe pick up an older HM game after the hiatus? I don't care about the characters though(Some games there's an exception when its well-done), so it'll be if LoB's farming is still decent even with the dumb tiny fields that matter to me.

**Posts:** 425

Harvest Moon is for all ages. Except maybe Selena and Luna's argument. ... O.o
If you think it's boring, have you tried playing as the opposite gender? People usually act diffident towards you then.

**Posts:** 21

Anonymous Fish wrote:

Mila wrote:

Really? I don't understand, I actually just finished my MFoMT game recently (it's been lying around for years, and I finally got around to marrying Cliff and having a kid), and then I went right into TToT. I see what you all mean by the text being repetitive, because yeah, everyone says the same thing regardless of your heart levels with them (save for the marrigeable candidates), but FoMT, DS, and all of the older games were exactly the same. Why would this only bother you now? (I'm totally not criticizing, I'm just genuinely curious).

My best guess is that It's eaither because I was younger when I played those, or the 'charming' factor of the old ones was enough to keep me from becoming bored.

Exactly, which is why I phrased my question that I might be too old for these games. But don't get me wrong. I've stated it several times and will again; I don't think age factors into enjoyment. What I mean is that was we age, does the charm of the game disappear or do we start noticing flaws we didn't at first?

I'm sure the older games also had repetitive dialogue as well but the games just seemed more enjoyable. I can't figure out if they were honestly just more fun or if I was too young/naive to notice the flaws. Or if perhaps the games nowadays have gotten worse.

As for all the folks who say to take breaks between games, I usually have a 1-2 year break between games. After a while I get a hankering for some HM and try out the latest game. I play for a month-ish but then drop it. This has been the case for the last several games. The last one I remember enjoying was Animal March when I was playing it and Japanese and putting subbed videos of me courting the Witch on youtube.

**Posts:** 514

I kind of agree in a way :p I've been playing for uhm... I believe 6 years already ? O: To me, the older ones have a lot more stuff to accomplish in them and more things to do and overall more fun. I enjoyed ToTT still though, not my favorite though. The older ones were way better though heehee.

**Posted:** Apr 11, 2012 8:03 am

...Am I the only one who thinks that the fanbase is just getting too over nostalgic? Nearly everyone who's saying that the quality of the games has decreased over the years have played the games since they were little. I started with ToT, and AnWL is by far my least favorite of the series. I can't even get past year one, it's just so...boring.

It's Sonic and Pokemon syndrome that's happening to the fanbase. Yes, the old games were good. But that doesn't mean that the new ones aren't either. I've seen people who say that they love ToTT, and that it's their first game. So I'm thinking that nostalgia may be playing a factor here.

I mean, seriously. People will say that the AP cast is flatter than they were in ToT while I find it to be the opposite. AP has random events that help you get to know the characters better, while I've only found one random event in ToT, which was just a school scene for the kids. At AP makes you want to befriend the villagers, while in ToT...there's really no point to it besides story required reasons.

I haven't played any of the handhelds due to only owning a Gameboy Color, and even with the nostalgia that can blind the fanbase I've heard that those games were pretty bad, lol.

Aaaand my rant for the day is over. Just my two cents.

**Posts:** 4226

Yeah I think there's a serious case of nostalgia-ism too. I started playing HM at age 15, which is maybe "old" compared to most other fans.

Now, DS Cute was my favorite handheld game (until I got this one!), but it was because I liked the gameplay mechanics, not the characters. I just thought it was fun to play for the numbers-- to me, interacting with the characters and getting married etc. was nothing more than a means to increase my farm degree haha. But I really wanted to increase that farm degree, so it was okay.

MFoMT was the first game I really played a lot of, and I miss some things like that cooking system and the TV shows, but I always thought the bachelors in that game were only so-so, as unpopular an opinion that may be D:

IoH and SI were convoluted and GB and ToTT were too simple/slow for long-time play.

And I didn't notice the severe character decay people talk about between ToT -> AP, but that's because I only played the Japanese versions. ...You know, I still think that was a case of a different translator/editor changing characters' speech and mannerisms. Originally only a couple of characters had personality tweaks, and that was because of the situation changes. I like both, and like ToT more, but for reasons other than character dialogue (it has a waaaaaay better map >_>).

----------

However, I'll give the older games one thing: they had way better festivals. LoB's are starting to get back on the right track, but GB's and ToTT's were no good. Festivals in LoB are more like how they were on the older handheld games, like MFoMT/DS/IoH/SI... except with the addition of classes/rankings.

**Posts:** 414

I've been feeling the same way as you for awhile now, though looking back on it I think it was more a symptom of the degradation of the series as whole - rather than any maturing on my part. The games, while improved in some areas, fell rather flat in others. I couldn't bring myself to get past the spring season in ToTT, and stopped mid-winter in IOH because of how monotonous it was getting in terms of what the characters were saying and was available activities I had before me. I just couldn't get as invested as I used to with the newer games for those reasons. (Not that the older games were shiny examples of activities and character interactions, but I found them mildly more compelling before SI.)
However after hearing what Nurse Fin has to say about this game gives me hope that it'll be the first game since AP and ToT that I'm able to make it past the second year in.

Pokefarm · **Posts:** 2100

Personally, I started HM right after I tried RF1. It was Rune Factory that got me into the series.

My first 'real' HM game was Cute. I loved it and I still do. Next was IoH and I love that one, even though it frustrates me from time to time (go away rain ;A;).

ToT and AP are really great, with AP being the best imo. ToT was good, but I just like the expanded range AP has.

I also have GrB and ToTT. GrB was great the first play-through, but not the second. I'm hoping that more time away from it will make it more appealing to me again (although LoB has stoked me that I will be able to see my Amir again). ToTT is a little confusing to me right now, but I hope to get in the hang of managing two villages soon :'D

I guess what makes HM so exciting for me is that, 1) I'm still pretty new to it and 2) I personally see what they are trying as moving into a better tomorrow. I hear stories all the time about the 'old' HM's and do wonder if that's what's stopping people from seeing that they are trying to try new ideas and new formulas to appeal to new people. LoB has me stoked about the ability to make your own character and the new things that they are trying (like cross-dressing). And from what I have seen from the dialogues, that these characters are a bit deeper.

Of course, there is much that we don't know since it doesn't either a) get translated or b) gets released later and only in Japan. You wanna know why I married Jin in ToT? I read on a translated wiki (I was hunting for his loved item at the time before I found Ushi) that he lost his first fiance to sickness which was why he was so health conscious and things.

These characters, they are much deeper than we know. Personally, the reason why I believe that so much is implied or not shown, is that Marvelous wants us to fill in the gaps to the story. They want us to make connection with these characters and make the game our own.

I know that this is probably reading deeper than one should, but this is what I see and feel.

**Posts:** 3793

I went back and regularly played the older games along with the newer games. I still believe the older games to be of higher quality. =/ The gameboy games aren't too great but just about all of the other titles. Of course, I actually like the games up until about anything before AP. Either way, I hardly think trying to negate everyone's opinion to nostalgia to everyone who thinks the older are of higher quality isn't all that fair. Could essentially argue that those who only like the newer games are a bunch of casuals who need their game streamlined for their enjoyment. Tis just not very cool.

**Posts:** 4226

The main (loudest) criticisms I hear are complaints about the characters though, not the gameplay. Most claims of characters being SO DEEP in past games screams nostalgia-ism. Saying the gameplay isn't as fun in the newer games is fair, but I think there's definitely some out there who put older games on a pedestal when it comes to characterization. Not to say that all HM characters are equal, but most of the games have had their share of standouts and boring characters, and I think it's a rarity to find a character who is terribly exciting in this series. It's a sim game with primary focus on farm development and a secondary focus on social interaction, not a game with a focus on an engaging storyline that explores fictional character trauma and development. I play one of my favorite RPGs if I want something like that.

A lot of people generalize and assume that new characters suck before even playing the game, i.e. saying so-and-so is a "rehash of Popuri because she has pink hair" or whats-her-face is "another Mary clone" or the ugly one is "a mix of Daryl and Skye with some Gotz and Doctor vibes~!". While there are obvious patterns/archetypes in the series, maybe part of the problem is people pushing characters into those stereotypes, and then they can't let go of their preconceived notions of everything being a rehash or clone and so they can no longer appreciate the game for what it is. Same goes for those anime tropes, where suddenly everyone and their mom is defined by what kind of (prefix)-dere they are, and it sucks the life (however much or little it had) out of everything.

(there are also contradictory opinions like, "I want something new, I'm tired of the same characters being used over and over" followed by stuff like "why isn't the Gourmet in this game??? that sucks, it's like it isn't HM anymore" or "I want to see another (game abbreviation)'s (character name)!!!")

**Posts:** 1741

I dunno, some of the recents ones haven't quite been up to the series' standards, but I'm still finding them enjoyable enough. And HM seems to be one of the games that someone of almost any age could appreciate. I loved it when I first discovered it in 3rd grade and more than five years later I adore it even more.

**Posts:** 3793

Nurse Fin wrote:

The main (loudest) criticisms I hear are complaints about the characters though, not the gameplay. Most claims of characters being SO DEEP in past games screams nostalgia-ism. Saying the gameplay isn't as fun in the newer games is fair, but I think there's definitely some out there who put older games on a pedestal when it comes to characterization. Not to say that all HM characters are equal, but most of the games have had their share of standouts and boring characters, and I think it's a rarity to find a character who is terribly exciting in this series. It's a sim game with primary focus on farm development and a secondary focus on social interaction, not a game with a focus on an engaging storyline that explores fictional character trauma and development. I play one of my favorite RPGs if I want something like that.

A lot of people generalize and assume that new characters suck before even playing the game, i.e. saying so-and-so is a "rehash of Popuri because she has pink hair" or whats-her-face is "another Mary clone" or the ugly one is "a mix of Daryl and Skye with some Gotz and Doctor vibes~!". While there are obvious patterns/archetypes in the series, maybe part of the problem is people pushing characters into those stereotypes, and then they can't let go of their preconceived notions of everything being a rehash or clone and so they can no longer appreciate the game for what it is. Same goes for those anime tropes, where suddenly everyone and their mom is defined by what kind of (prefix)-dere they are, and it sucks the life (however much or little it had) out of everything.

(there are also contradictory opinions like, "I want something new, I'm tired of the same characters being used over and over" followed by stuff like "why isn't the Gourmet in this game??? that sucks, it's like it isn't HM anymore" or "I want to see another (game abbreviation)'s (character name)!!!")

When it comes to characters, I hear 64, AWL, and sometimes BTN mentioned. STH is another occasional one. There's definitely some streamlining that's apparent with a lot of the newer games though. Walking on crops, stacking items, smaller fields, increased ease(with the exception of IoH/SI which has a very polarizing fanbase). But there are still those who enjoy the charm of the older game's gameplay itself. And those who do enjoy the newer games will often complain about the things like walking on crops and tiny rucksacks. Or that they can't play as a girl and marry a hot bachelor. I agree with you Nurse Fin that the characters are hardly ever anything to cry home about. There are certainly other games that do it far better. I think Harvest Moon holds potential for it but I'd rather not have it sacrifice gameplay for it. Which is the biggest reason I prefer the older games over the newer ones.

**Posts:** 1059

Nurse Fin wrote:

The main (loudest) criticisms I hear are complaints about the characters though, not the gameplay. Most claims of characters being SO DEEP in past games screams nostalgia-ism. Saying the gameplay isn't as fun in the newer games is fair, but I think there's definitely some out there who put older games on a pedestal when it comes to characterization. Not to say that all HM characters are equal, but most of the games have had their share of standouts and boring characters, and I think it's a rarity to find a character who is terribly exciting in this series. It's a sim game with primary focus on farm development and a secondary focus on social interaction, not a game with a focus on an engaging storyline that explores fictional character trauma and development. I play one of my favorite RPGs if I want something like that.

I agree with this. I was one of these people at one point in time, also due to nostalgia. I went back and played a few of the older games and honestly wondered what the hell I had been going on about because they have always been the bland characters who are interested in one or two things that everyone complains about these days. Sure, some games had better characterization than others but in general the quality of characters has been pretty consistent. I feel like a good chunk of players look back on the characters they loved when they were younger as something more than they actually were and now aren't falling for the same tricks HM has always been using.

However, on the gameplay itself I agree that many of the older games are more enjoyable. Ignoring the characters, I personally haven't been able to really get into a HM game since ToT. The games have become kind of calculated lately and they feel like a chore rather than a video game.

Ushi No Tane - Harvest Moon

Getting too told for HMs