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Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 7:53 pm 
Anonymous Fish

gossipstone wrote:
I triggered her intro shortly after seeing this thread and she was very polite and seemed genuinely interested in getting to know the FeMC. Is it a different story if you're playing as the male MC? I was under the impression that the intros (aside from a couple lines, like Wayne saying how pretty you are) and the friend events were the same regardless of gender.

they're not the same. Wayne, as a boy talks about how there's "not too many fellas our age" in town, and how he's happy you moved in, where as as a girl, he uses two whole text boxes to tell the FMC how pretty she is and how happy he is that such a pretty girl moved in. Lisette's was far more similar, though I don't remember the actual differences. it was much closer to like, a single sentence, like "so you're Frank's niece/nephew?". that much I do remember.

Autumn_Song wrote:
Listen, I'm a girl and it bothers me because it falls into the whole "I disliked x till I met the super special MC" or "I thought x about y till I met the super special MC" kind of thing and it personally makes me uncomfortable, whether it's a guy saying he didn't think girls could do super tough farm work till he saw me or a girl saying she hates all men till she loved me.

It's the kind of thing that seems like maybe some more thought should've been put into it? Like if you're gonna make this such a big thing for Kasumi, the reasons behind it perhaps should be more elaborated upon. From what it sounds like with her dad, it certainly does make sense that she has a distrust of men. Though dislike and distrust are not necessarily synonymous, and if they intended for it to be more a wariness and avoidance of men versus a true dislike/hatred, that should've perhaps been clarified more.

Though yeah I get the whole vibe of this is probably how a lesbian character would end up in one of these games, which I would not be okay with. In real life I wouldn't date someone who hated all men, since I do sometimes like men, why would I want to in a game? Again, that's just me personally.

Anyways, I do get the wariness of men, I guess. I tend to be wary of men, too. That doesn't mean I'm gonna tell every man I meet that I hate men. It's a game though. Of course she's gonna do that, the same way Soseki or Klaus harped on about how much older than the MC they were. I can't fathom why, but that's just the way it is.

I hope some of my thoughts made sense here. :shock:

^this. this is my only issue with her character design. as another lesbian I don't mind dating a lesbian who hates men, but if that were the only lesbian in a piece of media, that isn't ok.

ALSO
Anonymous Fish wrote:
(if Kasumi was originally intended to be « homosexual », though she isn't butch, this is the epitome of the "angry man-hating dyke" stereotype)


HOLD TF UP

are you telling me, seriously, that G A Y is censored with homosexual but the actual slur dyke isn't???? at all???????

I read the rules, and the censors are meant to hide "offensive words and adult content", so tell me, how is the actual word we chose to go by offensive or adult content, but a slur isn't? especially since that word was specifically coined to replace "homosexual" which at the time was used to pathologize us? in what word does that make sense???
 
 
Beedlebud
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 7:56 pm 
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^ Last time I heard someone brought that up with Cher and she said she wasn't changing it and didn't give any reason why. As a fellow « homosexual » I find this really irritating as well.
 
 
Lccorp2
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 7:57 pm 
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gossipstone wrote:
Beedlebud wrote:
gossipstone wrote:
I triggered her intro shortly after seeing this thread and she was very polite and seemed genuinely interested in getting to know the FeMC. Is it a different story if you're playing as the male MC? I was under the impression that the intros (aside from a couple lines, like Wayne saying how pretty you are) and the friend events were the same regardless of gender.


Nah she's very abrupt and Komari has to intercept and say that she's not fond of men and that it was a "miracle" that she was able to get her to come greet you in the first place.

Oh lol. It's neat to see the level of detail that they put into stuff like this. I'll have to play a male file soon to see the other differences.


HM games always have had plenty of these differences; some of them can be pretty major. Remember that FoMT and HMDS had to be split into two different games in part to accommodate these. It's why I always play both a boy and girl file to get 100% out of the game I bought.
 
 
gossipstone
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 7:59 pm 
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Lccorp2 wrote:
gossipstone wrote:
Beedlebud wrote:
gossipstone wrote:
I triggered her intro shortly after seeing this thread and she was very polite and seemed genuinely interested in getting to know the FeMC. Is it a different story if you're playing as the male MC? I was under the impression that the intros (aside from a couple lines, like Wayne saying how pretty you are) and the friend events were the same regardless of gender.


Nah she's very abrupt and Komari has to intercept and say that she's not fond of men and that it was a "miracle" that she was able to get her to come greet you in the first place.

Oh lol. It's neat to see the level of detail that they put into stuff like this. I'll have to play a male file soon to see the other differences.


HM games always have had plenty of these differences; some of them can be pretty major. Remember that FoMT and HMDS had to be split into two different games just to accommodate these. It's why I always play both a boy and girl file to get 100% out of the game I bought.


That's true. I suppose I wasn't really thinking of that because most of the HM games I've played are the ones you mentioned, where there's a whole separate game released for each gender, and I guess I kinda see them as being different games (even though they're not lol).
 
 
ConfusedBlonde
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Anonymous Fish wrote:
gossipstone wrote:
I triggered her intro shortly after seeing this thread and she was very polite and seemed genuinely interested in getting to know the FeMC. Is it a different story if you're playing as the male MC? I was under the impression that the intros (aside from a couple lines, like Wayne saying how pretty you are) and the friend events were the same regardless of gender.

they're not the same. Wayne, as a boy talks about how there's "not too many fellas our age" in town, and how he's happy you moved in, where as as a girl, he uses two whole text boxes to tell the FMC how pretty she is and how happy he is that such a pretty girl moved in. Lisette's was far more similar, though I don't remember the actual differences. it was much closer to like, a single sentence, like "so you're Frank's niece/nephew?". that much I do remember.

Autumn_Song wrote:
Listen, I'm a girl and it bothers me because it falls into the whole "I disliked x till I met the super special MC" or "I thought x about y till I met the super special MC" kind of thing and it personally makes me uncomfortable, whether it's a guy saying he didn't think girls could do super tough farm work till he saw me or a girl saying she hates all men till she loved me.

It's the kind of thing that seems like maybe some more thought should've been put into it? Like if you're gonna make this such a big thing for Kasumi, the reasons behind it perhaps should be more elaborated upon. From what it sounds like with her dad, it certainly does make sense that she has a distrust of men. Though dislike and distrust are not necessarily synonymous, and if they intended for it to be more a wariness and avoidance of men versus a true dislike/hatred, that should've perhaps been clarified more.

Though yeah I get the whole vibe of this is probably how a lesbian character would end up in one of these games, which I would not be okay with. In real life I wouldn't date someone who hated all men, since I do sometimes like men, why would I want to in a game? Again, that's just me personally.

Anyways, I do get the wariness of men, I guess. I tend to be wary of men, too. That doesn't mean I'm gonna tell every man I meet that I hate men. It's a game though. Of course she's gonna do that, the same way Soseki or Klaus harped on about how much older than the MC they were. I can't fathom why, but that's just the way it is.

I hope some of my thoughts made sense here. :shock:

^this. this is my only issue with her character design. as another lesbian I don't mind dating a lesbian who hates men, but if that were the only lesbian in a piece of media, that isn't ok.

ditto that. I love Kasumi and plan to marry her in my cross dressing file but like...for real now.

altough considering that her reason for disliking men is that her father wouldn't let her get a proper education, I think she has an excellent reason to dislike men, and i wouldn't de-legitimize it by calling it "daddy issues" at all. If kanji was still considered to be "men's writing", then obviously this game is not supposed to take place in modern day. It's a lighthearted video game so obviously some of the darker elements of the historic oppression of women in Japan aren't gonna be included out right, but this seems like a way of pointing out "hey, in the time and place this character lives women do not necessarily have the same freedoms they do today"

EDIT
Beedlebud wrote:
^ Last time I heard someone brought that up with Cher and she said she wasn't changing it and didn't give any reason why. As a fellow « homosexual » I find this really irritating as well.

l m a o
 
 
Mecha-Lollipop
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Kasumi simply hates certain traits in men she has observed. She even states in one of her lines that she doesn't dislike male children or old men. She just doesn't like rude, abrasive, immature men like the ones she has dealt with that have hurt her feelings or made her feel she wasn't an equal. Basically adolescent males. She's actually a very caring woman imo.
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:10 pm 
Anonymous Fish

Beedlebud wrote:
^ Last time I heard someone brought that up with Cher and she said she wasn't changing it and didn't give any reason why. As a fellow « homosexual » I find this really irritating as well.

I'm not overly surprised with not changing the « homosexual » censor (though both far more than just irritate me), but to not censor a slur is....that raises some serious questions. not only about how ok she is with that slur being free to see, but how many other slurs aren't censored? could someone call another user the n slur and that not be censored? and if she did censor slurs how did she choose which ones are "acceptable" and which ones aren't? I get the feeling I'd be banned for even asking, but I feel like there needs to be more push to at least censor slurs. if this site is to bother with censoring, for the care of its users, slurs are literally the #1 thing that needs to be censored, and preferably flagged to a mod to make sure the slur's use isn't being directed at another user..

ConfusedBlonde wrote:
ditto that. I love Kasumi and plan to marry her in my cross dressing file but like...for real now.

altough considering that her reason for disliking men is that her father wouldn't let her get a proper education, I think she has an excellent reason to dislike men, and i wouldn't de-legitimize it by calling it "daddy issues" at all. If kanji was still considered to be "men's writing", then obviously this game is not supposed to take place in modern day. It's a lighthearted video game so obviously some of the darker elements of the historic oppression of women in Japan aren't gonna be included out right, but this seems like a way of pointing out "hey, in the time and place this character lives women do not necessarily have the same freedoms they do today"

EDIT
Beedlebud wrote:
^ Last time I heard someone brought that up with Cher and she said she wasn't changing it and didn't give any reason why. As a fellow « homosexual » I find this really irritating as well.

l m a o

tbh, that brings up an interesting thought. clearly this game isn't set in our world. it has a strange mish-mash of technology that doesn't actually line up with any real-world period, but I at least have never thought about how actually modern this series' world(s?) is/are. if women are still being denied things like an education, that really changes the feel of the game. (and also makes me question...since I recal HM was originally made because the creator missed the countryside where he grew up and wanted to help city kids experience the joy of the simple life. if he's still part of designing these games, they really makes me question what all he thinks of as the "joys of a simple life"....)

also how is that funny?
 
 
ConfusedBlonde
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:12 pm 
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no no u misunderstood. that was an incredibly sarcastic lmao
 
 
Jeunesse
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Kasumi somewhat echoes Iroha in a way that they're both Japanese women who've defected from the expectations of stereotypes placed upon them and pursued their own desires despite what their family wanted for them. I haven't seen Kasumi's events yet so I can't say much but Iroha's characterization was wonderfully done and her events really showed her estrangement from her family and the MC helping them all reconcile and understand one another. Of course it's a little different here, 'cause Iroha wasn't left with lingering resentments (just fear of confronting them) from her family's behavior unlike Kasumi. But it still shows that this is a certain trope that the BokoMono developers want to convey in their games-- the cultural difficulties Japanese women face. It's important here to not see Kasumi through the Western lens.

also, anon, the censorship system on this site is... questionable. very much so. makes me pretty uncomfortable as well.
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:24 pm 
Anonymous Fish

ah, ok. my bad^^

srsly though, did anyone call her on that, or was everyone too scared of getting banned to push it? cause I honestly can't think of any legitimate reason not to at least censor slurs. even with a new game coming out, I don't think it'd take that much time to code..

Jeunesse wrote:
Kasumi somewhat echoes Iroha in a way that they're both Japanese women who've defected from the expectations of stereotypes placed upon them and pursued their own desires despite what their family wanted for them. I haven't seen Kasumi's events yet so I can't say much but Iroha's characterization was wonderfully done and her events really showed her estrangement from her family and the MC helping them all reconcile and understand one another. Of course it's a little different here, 'cause Iroha wasn't left with lingering resentments (just fear of confronting them) from her family's behavior unlike Kasumi. But it still shows that this is a certain trope that the BokoMono developers want to convey in their games-- the cultural difficulties Japanese women face. It's important here to not see Kasumi through the Western lens.

also, anon, the censorship system on this site is... questionable. very much so. makes me pretty uncomfortable as well.

true. it very much could be them calling out misogyny in Japanese society (which is pretty rampant) but it all depends on how they do it, and since none of us seem to have seen the event (or at least in recent memory) it's hard to say for sure.

yea, I know, but still. at least I'm not the only one that's noticed/is uncomfortable with it...that makes me feel a lil better at least =/
 
 
ConfusedBlonde
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Anonymous Fish wrote:
ah, ok. my bad^^

srsly though, did anyone call her on that, or was everyone too scared of getting banned to push it? cause I honestly can't think of any legitimate reason not to at least censor slurs. even with a new game coming out, I don't think it'd take that much time to code..


people typically do not pick fights with Cher because she's much older than this site's primary user base and it's intimidating to argue with grownups when you are 15
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:35 pm 
Anonymous Fish

ConfusedBlonde wrote:
people typically do not pick fights with Cher because she's much older than this site's primary user base and it's intimidating to argue with grownups when you are 15

true. how old is she? I'm gonna be 24 on the 28th, so I'm certainly no child she can intimidate, but I do know she tends to be rather liberal with the bans when you question her authority or anything she does, esp if it's something she doesn't want talked about.

and I'm not the only person in this house that plays, so until all the pages are filled in, if I get IP banned and none of us can ask questions, we're basically screwed unless we find someone outside the house to ask for us, or are able to find someone else who asked/the answer on a different site =/
 
 
Mecha-Lollipop
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:40 pm 
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Well there's the fact that Fogu wouldn't exist without her as well as the fact that I've been using this forum for 11 years and THIS thread is the first time I recall ever seeing someone even say "dyke".
Must have happened before if someone tried to report it to Cher but I keep censorship off and honestly can't think of any other time and some of the topics get pretty nasty when someone decides they're out for blood.
If this topic gets locked, which wouldn't surprise me, it's likely going to be because now it's been knocked completely off topic. Not because Cher is flexing her authority.
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:47 pm 
Anonymous Fish

Mecha-Lollipop wrote:
Well there's the fact that Fogu wouldn't exist without her as well as the fact that I've been using this forum for 11 years and THIS thread is the first time I recall ever seeing someone even say "dyke".
Must have happened before if someone tried to report it to Cher but I keep censorship off and honestly can't think of any other time and some of the topics get pretty nasty when someone decides they're out for blood.
If this topic gets locked, which wouldn't surprise me, it's likely going to be because now it's been knocked completely off topic. Not because Cher is flexing her authority.

I've seen it used, usually in the conversation about same-sex marriage being included or a character being thought of as a lesbian. but that doesn't really matter. I'm sure it isn't the only slur not censored, and as you point out, things can get nasty, which is exactly why slurs should be censored.

and I said people banned, not threads locked. there's a difference.

but to get the thread back on topic, does anyone know when you unlock her town? I'm excited to meet her tbh, but I just unlocked the fishing rod so I get the feeling I'm at least semi-close.
 
 
Mecha-Lollipop
Post Posted: Mar 05, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Summer 5th you unlock her town. Then she arrives on the 15th iirc.
 
 
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