Ushi No Tane - Harvest Moon

The forum for Ushi No Tane, a Harvest Moon fansite

* Rules    * Login 

   * Search  * Register
It is currently Sep 19, 2020 10:24 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours





Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Oct 29, 2019 8:58 am 
Anonymous Fish

Even on HM/SOS related forums, I still see even fans say that Natsume "stole" the name to make "mediocre clones". But, that isn't true. Marvelous is the one that decided to go with XSeed and rename the series. They left Natsume with nothing, even though Natsume made most of its profit off of HM and spent 10+ years popularizing the series outside of Japan.

Is it even correct to call Marvelous the "original HM" creators? Pack-In-Video published the original games. Pack In later merged with Victor Interactive, which merged again with Marvelous. Almost none, if not none, of the original HM team worked on the 3DS games. I think most of the team left by Animal Parade; I know the series creator Wada left in the DS era. So, in essence, the current SOS games are "clones" just like the HM games: they're both produced by new team members.

Most people just seem to look at the Natsume games and complain. I haven't played the 3DS ones, but LOH was enjoyable. I especially liked the characterizations of Melanie, Harvest Goddess, Edmond, Dean, and Carol.

My only major complaint with LOH is that characters give you too many quests. It feels like you're always getting asked to do so-and-so and you have 10+ requests at a time.

I think Natsume should just change the art-style and make more characters. They repeat too many characters; don't do that just because 64's characters appeared in many games. Most complaints seem to be about the game "looking like a mobile game". Maybe they could do pixel-art like almost every other SOS/Stardew clone.
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Oct 29, 2019 9:01 am 
Anonymous Fish

Oh, and another good thing about Natsume's games is that Natsume listens to English-speaking fan output more. From what I've seen, Marvelous focuses more on Japanese fans.
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Oct 29, 2019 12:28 pm 
Anonymous Fish

Anonymous Fish wrote:
Even on HM/SOS related forums, I still see even fans say that Natsume "stole" the name to make "mediocre clones". But, that isn't true. Marvelous is the one that decided to go with XSeed and rename the series. They left Natsume with nothing, even though Natsume made most of its profit off of HM and spent 10+ years popularizing the series outside of Japan.

Is it even correct to call Marvelous the "original HM" creators? Pack-In-Video published the original games. Pack In later merged with Victor Interactive, which merged again with Marvelous. Almost none, if not none, of the original HM team worked on the 3DS games. I think most of the team left by Animal Parade; I know the series creator Wada left in the DS era. So, in essence, the current SOS games are "clones" just like the HM games: they're both produced by new team members.

Most people just seem to look at the Natsume games and complain. I haven't played the 3DS ones, but LOH was enjoyable. I especially liked the characterizations of Melanie, Harvest Goddess, Edmond, Dean, and Carol.

My only major complaint with LOH is that characters give you too many quests. It feels like you're always getting asked to do so-and-so and you have 10+ requests at a time.

I think Natsume should just change the art-style and make more characters. They repeat too many characters; don't do that just because 64's characters appeared in many games. Most complaints seem to be about the game "looking like a mobile game". Maybe they could do pixel-art like almost every other SOS/Stardew clone.


I agree that it's sad what happened to the franchise and that Wada's own series got stolen right from under his nose, but Natsume's no saint here either. I understand that they're in a desperate position considering HM was their bread and butter and Marvelous pretty much left them hanging but they lost all my sympathy as a company once they decided to cut out the Best Friend system in Cute. Not to mention they never did a great job with localization anyways. Typos, glitches and untranslated text galore permeated the games they translated! (FOMT's infamous Carter speaking German anyone?) And again they actively cut content, not even just the « homosexual » Marriage system in Cute which was a big slap in the face to the LGBTQ community but also the mail/letter system that was also present in DS/Cute.

That being said I'm not thrilled with the Harvest Moon brand being tarnished and drug through the mud. though Marvelous themselves has done their fare share of tarnishing as well If Natsume were really smart, instead of trying to develop HM games on their own - which was already a preposterous notion considering they have barely any game development experience and are a small, poor company- They should have tried to team up with Wada (whom I've heard they have a close relationship) and his Toybox company to continue making their version of HM. Now that would've been really cool and would've given Marvelous a run for their money, not to mention then Natsume's Harvest Moon would actually be the "true" Harvest Moon in this sort of scenario.

But no, Natsume is a cheap, dumb company who hates money, so alas they will continue to peddle their cheaply-developed, cheaply-made, shovelware "Harvest Moon."

I ain't got no sympathy for them, they only did it to themselves.

Also it's a blatant lie that Natsume listens to fan-feedback, if that were the case « homosexual » Marriage (as well as a less kiddified Harvest Moon with no plot) would already be a thing in the Natsume Harvest Moons, but no even freaking Marvelous managed to fully incorporate it before Natsume will! And they're primarily catering to a country where « homosexual » Marriage isn't even legal yet and has yet to be accepted into the mainstream!

Natsume dismisses the concerns of the LGBTQ community and is homophobic trash. They are far from a company who listens to what fans want.

Also FYI Wada left after Animal Parade, not the DS era. (Though it's true he wasn't involved in any of the DS games) Animal Parade was the last game he was actively involved, which is probably the reason why it's as good as it is.
 
 
Burning Spear
Post Posted: Oct 29, 2019 5:40 pm 
Growing Garden Gnome
Growing Garden Gnome

Posts: 64

Offline
Natsume owns the Harvest Moon trademark and is free to do what it pleases, particularly since Marvelous created this situation. That said, what Natsume is doing is detrimental to the health of the franchise it helped birth and grow. I see so many people on forums say they’ve never tried a Harvest Moon game and are considering beginning with the latest Natsume iteration. Let’s face it: Natsume’s games are not representative of what a polished game should be in 2019. The result is that newcomers may see the series as nothing more than a mobile-quality game. I know people have some complaints about the Story of Seasons games, but anyone who plays them can tell that they've been painstakingly created with care. No one plays a Story of Seasons game and finishes with the thought that the game is broken, not worth the money or a poor effort. Can't say that about Natsume's versions. I respect what Natsume has done for this series, but its current course is not helping.
 
 
ChaosAzerothCat
Post Posted: Oct 30, 2019 3:19 pm 
Ultimate Farming Fanatic
Ultimate Farming Fanatic

Posts: 1117

Offline
I have to agree people have been overly negative though, to the point of making genuinely toxic remarks.

There's a difference between criticism and toxic remarks, and a good chunk of people don't seem to know the difference.

Heck there's a difference between getting kind of heated and the kind of bile I've seen some places!

My big gripe though with LoH is some of their DLC. Coming off of Skytree Village myself, seeing all the free clothing and even hairstyles... And then seeing them decide that if buying a la carte the clothing is $6 and it doesn't include clothes from before and has no hairstyles... Things we got for free before? Nah.

Stuff like that is dragging them worse than anything else imo. I don't see anyone saying anything about that though. There's really little to no comments about gameplay or monitizing. There's graphics, which is at least fair, and then just flat out anger and hate for Natsume.

Idk I find it kind of weird that others who have played all their offerings have nothing to say about that...
 
 
Anonymous Fish
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2019 9:06 pm 
Anonymous Fish

ChaosAzerothCat wrote:
I have to agree people have been overly negative though, to the point of making genuinely toxic remarks.

There's a difference between criticism and toxic remarks, and a good chunk of people don't seem to know the difference.

Heck there's a difference between getting kind of heated and the kind of bile I've seen some places!

My big gripe though with LoH is some of their DLC. Coming off of Skytree Village myself, seeing all the free clothing and even hairstyles... And then seeing them decide that if buying a la carte the clothing is $6 and it doesn't include clothes from before and has no hairstyles... Things we got for free before? Nah.

Stuff like that is dragging them worse than anything else imo. I don't see anyone saying anything about that though. There's really little to no comments about gameplay or monitizing. There's graphics, which is at least fair, and then just flat out anger and hate for Natsume.

Idk I find it kind of weird that others who have played all their offerings have nothing to say about that...

Alot of that (rightfully deserved imo) venom is probably just revenge bashing for how Natsume completely screwed over the LGBT community by deliberately removing the Best Friends system from DS Cute.

It’d be one thing if they were just a company that did lazy localizations and made mediocre games, but seeing as how they’re an outright homophobic company I just can’t bring myself to feel sorry for them.

Then there’s the perception among the majority of the fandom who DON’T know the whole Victor Interactive/Wada/Marvelous/Natsume story and really do genuinely believe that Natsume sneakily stole the HM name out of ill will to hurt the franchise and trick it’s customers. While I’ll concede that this part isn’t Natsume’s fault since the whole story isn’t widely known in the fandom I imagine even if it were they would still catch a lot of anger, and rightfully so, because they as a company with their error-filled translations, cutting of content and homophobic attitude kinda do suck.

Couple that with the games they make actually being mediocre and still confusing the casual audience till today and it’s no wonder Natsume gets the flak that they do.
 
 
ChaosAzerothCat
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2019 10:26 pm 
Ultimate Farming Fanatic
Ultimate Farming Fanatic

Posts: 1117

Offline
Most people don't really seem to care about the best friend thing as much as you're implying. Especially since it's not like Marvelous has stepped up until the FoMT remake since. Neither party is really free of guilt there.

Plus the fact best friend absolutely isn't full on marriage. They literally refused to call it as much, even now they still don't.

Most people just consider them thieves, and that's where the venom parts come from really.

I also find it funny that things that absolutely would be Marvelous end have been blamed on Natsume since they started making their own games. You listen to a good chunk, Marvelous' « Puppy Doodoo » doesn't stink and everything (even things Marvelous did) wrong with older games is on Natsume.
 
 
VanillaCookies
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 12:57 am 
Custodian of Corn
Custodian of Corn

User avatar
Posts: 435

Offline
Honestly as much as I dislike Natsume's stance on censorship, being LGBTQ+ myself, I think we also need to consider the time in which many of these games came out. Cute was released in the States in 2008, the VERY same year the infamous Prop 8 passed in California and anti-LGBTQ+ bigotry was everywhere to be seen. Wide spread support for us really didn't start gaining traction until /after/ that debacle as we were seen as deviants at worst and sometimes at best as caricatures like Jack from Will and Grace. From a business standpoint I get, but do not in any way condone, why Natsume likely thought that including the Best Friends system might cost them sales. It wouldn't be underselling it to say that it was a /very/ contentious topic back then and one I still have a lot of bad memories from in real life.

Was it cowardly? I would say so. But given the target demographic Natsume was trying to sell to I can absolutely see them wanting to appease the cantankerous soccer moms who would have blacklisted the game outright from being played by their children, instead of taking the moral high ground. Again, a case of understanding, while absolutely not condoning. Though as other posters have pointed out Marvelous has hardly been a saint in terms of representation either (Julius' Japanese dialogue is VERY much not okay in AP) and very much conforms to Japan's own societal issues surrounding the LGBTQ+ with their Best Friends system. In essence they throw bones to a niche market starving for representation whilst still segregating the feature under a non-romantic term that won't get their own conservatives angry. I don't know about other people, but while I'm happy to have the feature I'm still very put off by the fact that in 2019 they put it behind a back handed, slap of a name.

Personally while Natsume did a lot I didn't like, the name changing to name one of the many issues, I do wish they'd actually succeed given how much they've been struggling of late. As others have said they did unfairly take a lot of flak for choices made by Marvelous, while Marvelous remains this pristine company in the eyes of many fans. Which really isn't all that fair to hate a company for mistakes that aren't their own. I get disliking them for their personal choices, but too often they're the fall man by virtue of being the localizer.

Note: That isn't to say people are wrong to hate them or be mad. I'm just urging some consideration of the context first. If after that you still hate them more power to you.


Last edited by VanillaCookies on Nov 01, 2019 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 
ChaosAzerothCat
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 3:01 am 
Ultimate Farming Fanatic
Ultimate Farming Fanatic

Posts: 1117

Offline
Basically VanillaCookies said all my feelings better than I think I ever could.

I won't pretend anywhere near all their decisions have been great. Dislike and criticism is fair.

Also I wonder if back then it would have raised the game rating. I'm honestly morbidly curious about that.

I will say I'll give credit where it's due if XSeed steps up this time too.
 
 
gossipstone
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 11:26 am 
Custodian of Corn
Custodian of Corn

User avatar
Posts: 427

Offline
ChaosAzerothCat wrote:
Basically VanillaCookies said all my feelings better than I think I ever could.

I won't pretend anywhere near all their decisions have been great. Dislike and criticism is fair.

Also I wonder if back then it would have raised the game rating. I'm honestly morbidly curious about that.

I will say I'll give credit where it's due if XSeed steps up this time too.

A couple months ago when someone brought up the possibility of same-sex marriage (not called the BF system but just plain SS marriage) on reddit there were a couple people who argued that including it would cause the games’ ratings to go up, so unfortunately this mindset is still around. Stardew Valley is rated E, though, so I don’t think it’s the type of thing to happen in this day and age, but I can definitely see people having argued for it back then.

As for everything else, I don’t really have a horse in this race because I’ve never played any of the Natsume HMs, so I can’t say anything about them either way. I do agree they shouldn’t be accused of “stealing” the HM name since Marvelous themselves let them keep it, though.
 
 
Code_Name_Geek
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 4:04 pm 
Huggy Chickens
Huggy Chickens

User avatar
Posts: 279

Offline
gossipstone wrote:
ChaosAzerothCat wrote:
Basically VanillaCookies said all my feelings better than I think I ever could.

I won't pretend anywhere near all their decisions have been great. Dislike and criticism is fair.

Also I wonder if back then it would have raised the game rating. I'm honestly morbidly curious about that.

I will say I'll give credit where it's due if XSeed steps up this time too.

A couple months ago when someone brought up the possibility of same-sex marriage (not called the BF system but just plain SS marriage) on reddit there were a couple people who argued that including it would cause the games’ ratings to go up, so unfortunately this mindset is still around. Stardew Valley is rated E, though, so I don’t think it’s the type of thing to happen in this day and age, but I can definitely see people having argued for it back then.

As for everything else, I don’t really have a horse in this race because I’ve never played any of the Natsume HMs, so I can’t say anything about them either way. I do agree they shouldn’t be accused of “stealing” the HM name since Marvelous themselves let them keep it, though.
I was one of the ones who brought it up, not as an argument against it of course but I did wonder if that would have any effect. Stardew Valley is actually rated E 10+ which is one of the reasons I was curious, though there are a few things that probably also helped bump up that rating (alcohol and gambling for example). Ratings vary from region to region as well so s/s marriage could affect the rating more in more homophobic countries. That’s one of the reasons I was actually pretty surprised to see that in this new remake (and happy of course!), though maybe calling it Best Friends was a way of keeping it under the radar.

As for Natsume, I haven’t played their games but it is annoying when people in the Stardew Valley community complain that Harvest Moon has gone “downhill” or that it’s “entirely different” than the old games, and being completely ignorant of the fact that it is a new series. Not because the Natsume games are necessarily bad (again, haven’t played them) but they go into them expecting one thing and getting another which is the real problem.
 
 
Kikki
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 4:08 pm 
UNoT Extreme Mooomber
UNoT Extreme Mooomber

User avatar
Posts: 3026

Offline
E10+ is the standard rating for most of these games. Most of them don't get a straight 'E' any more. Story of Seasons and Trio of Towns were rated E10+, too. So Stardew Valley's rating isn't actually bumped up from them, at least.
 
 
Code_Name_Geek
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 4:33 pm 
Huggy Chickens
Huggy Chickens

User avatar
Posts: 279

Offline
Kikki wrote:
E10+ is the standard rating for most of these games. Most of them don't get a straight 'E' any more. Story of Seasons and Trio of Towns were rated E10+, too. So Stardew Valley's rating isn't actually bumped up from them, at least.
Oh well would you look at that, you’re absolutely right! I wonder if that’s because the two translation teams did it differently or just due to the inflation of ratings.
 
 
Kikki
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2019 4:47 pm 
UNoT Extreme Mooomber
UNoT Extreme Mooomber

User avatar
Posts: 3026

Offline
If anyone cares to know, Xseed already has the rating for SoS: FoMT up, and it's also E10+ :) You can see the rating on the official Xseed game info page.
 
 
KonekoChan
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2019 12:01 am 
Ultimate Farming Fanatic
Ultimate Farming Fanatic

User avatar
Posts: 1482

Offline
we're all just gonna really pretend like natsume didn't do the most garbage translation job in half the games that they published huh

ANB, which was the last game they had the rights to, was a MESS. it was like someone stuck it thru google translate and then they hired someone to go through and half-ass fix it. i dont know if they outsourced the translation or what, but they screwed that dialogue up so bad. not to mention all the stuff in other games they forgot to translate..... or messed the coding up in........ or misspelled their own name on the title screen in......... yeah a lot of care was really put into these games let me tell you.

anyway stop acting like companies have feelings. marvelous is not some kind of villain for taking control of their own IP and using their own subsidiary to publish the games lol.
 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


All times are UTC - 8 hours


 

Search this topic:

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group