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Kikki
Post Posted: Aug 04, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Hysuka wrote:
In past games like these, the child is nothing but a prop after they become a toddler. I LOVED the way they handled it in A Wonderful Life where the child's personality is based on decisions you make when they're growing up. Then as a teen they have their own aspirations and problems with other kids.

^That's a really good topic!

How do you guys think the progression of the child should be handled(gameplay-wise and story-wise?)


Well, that depends. For example, in Trio, I liked the child reasonably well, even though they weren't majorly fleshed out...your child would be mostly the same no matter who you married, other than their different colour palette (which itself is big a step up from having a blue-eyed blond child regardless of what you or your spouse look like!)...as they did have some events, and their schedule was different depending on who your spouse was, because they'd go with them to town or etc on some days of the week. That was a nice touch. Them having their own lives even as a pre-schooler/kindergarten aged person made them feel more real. But I do remember thinking that I wished the child could have done some of their own gardening. Like...once you got the baby-into-child event, I wished you could build a small side plot onto your house, where your child could either actually garden/farm, or at least be seen to be gardening. Even if it has just been cosmetic, seeing them wander around a decorative plot with big sunflowers and pumpkins and chinese lantern plants or pussy willows or strawberries (plants children are typically fascinated by or love to just grab and eat) would have been really cool.

I tend to think small when it comes to child improvements, tbh, cuz I don't like to get my hopes up for anything really fascinating. Just having the child show more of their own personality and schedule would be great. Having them help out with chores at least a little would add to that...maybe like your spouse in Trio, they could do some fetching chore. Or if they got older than about 5, maybe they could water the whole main plot of your farm first thing each morning.

Or, if we're thinking bigger...maybe they could have another growth stage, into someone between 10-15, where they'd get even more characteristics and uses. Or you could even have...and this would completely change the game so I don't think it's feasible...a generational set-up. Like in Kynseed. Or RF2. Where the person you initially play as has children, and then at some point, the gameplay passes on to them.

Though personally I like to stick with my one, original MC, and would like the child's events and progression to just make them more unique and interesting. Maybe the events for the child could allow you to play AS the child, for the duration of that event. Like...their first time running an errand alone, or a play date with other children in town, or learning from their parent how to grow crops or tend animals, or...I don't know, the possibilities are pretty endless. But I think it'd be pretty cool to get to play as the child during an event like that.
 
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Blue Rose
Post Posted: Aug 05, 2020 1:30 am 
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Matchmaking would be really fun! Pre-made couples would give us a really solid foundation to flesh out the writing for the rival kids though. So both of those are really good ideas to consider.

Hmm.. could you say more about rival kids? That's something I've never thought about.


By "rival kids" I mean kids produced from rival pairs. An example of really well implemented ones would be AP/ToT. The only con to those would be that if you married one of the pre-made parents, you would miss out on the rival kid. The solution to this would be have to have some kind of back up bachelor/ette who would be the parent in place.

If you wanted to do matchmaking, you could have kids tied to certain characters such as how Fire Emblem: Awakening and Fire Emblem: Fates have done it, but that is more work.

As far as the s/s adoption idea, that's good (and personally preferable to a deity randomly gifting you a child). You could have the "ask if they want to adopt" just "substitute" the pregnancy news event and have the "pregnancy/kid waiting" time duration be the same. It takes time for people to adopt kids irl so it doesn't have to happen instantaneously.

As far as child development goes, AWL/AnWL definitely had it best (although AP's was pretty good too) and I do wish we could have some thing like it again. But with AWL/AnWL, that really is framed around time passing on and characters aging and that would be a lot different than what most folks that enjoy the more modern Bokumono/farming games are used to. Not saying that as a good or bad thing, but that would be something to keep in mind.

But, if you just wanted the kids to grow to a certain age and nobody else; that is fine too and would work. If you wanted to have the "influence the child's interest" system, then 13-15 might be the ideal age.
 
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Areli
Post Posted: Aug 09, 2020 5:01 am 
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Hysuka wrote:
Discord invite has been updated! Thanks for catching that. :wink: https://discord.gg/R3U2G8N

Reddit is actually the same way I found the project!

lol yeah, but we've got a really great programmer. He can definitely handle whatever we throw at him. Rival marriage after the player is married seems to be the happy medium between the two.

You're welcome! and thanks for modifying it.

I'm glad to read about the programmer, if you manage to make the design highly configurable from the beginning, the game will greatly facilitate development later!
 
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Kikki
Post Posted: Aug 09, 2020 5:31 am 
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I don't think this was brought up in this thread, but there are a couple of features I know are wanted in a fairly wide-spread way. (Not unanimously, of course...NO feature is ever unanimously popular). One is that a lot of us would feel more motivated (if achievements of any type exist in the game) if our achievements were worth more. And by that I mean...when you catch your thousandth fish or make your ten millionth dollar or...whatever...it'd be nice if the reward for that was at least a little more significant than just a few words appearing on the screen for two seconds to acknowledge that you'd done it.

Of course, there are people who don't like to have anything useful behind any kind of lengthy time lock, but...even something cosmetic would be nice (like a fishing hat or a purse or backpack shaped like a money bag). I think the most popular idea when we were discussing it was just that you getting an achievement like that would add a line to villager dialogue pool, or etc. Like if you'd caught a thousand fish, after that point, villagers occasionally complimenting you on or being amazed at how good/frequent a fisherperson you were would become a possibility.

Just something in-game that shows the impact your time spent and choices made have had. Extra dialogue and events to make the world and characters deeper and more real seems to be the most popular thing, I think.

And in talking about that one, I've forgotten the other one I was thinking of, lol. But overall I think a major point of widespread success would be remembering that while there is no possible way in any reality to make everybody happy (this is why I hate the Natsume motto, which is literally "Make everybody happy!" IMPOSSIBLE.) ...there are different camps of farm-sim afficionados. What makes the game fun for one person makes it stressful or tedious for another. That's why I think making gameplay as flexible or customizable as possible is the key to pleasing the largest group of people...let them create their own game as much as they can while still working within the frame of the game you want to make. Let people choose their own difficulty. Let them focus on crops or animals or socializing, without making one clearly more important/useful than the others. Let people unlock things early via a bit of extra hard work, or simply wait it out peacefully. (Like I always bust my butt to unlock sweet potatoes by Fall of Year 1 in ANB, which is not easy...but it can be done if you're willing to put in the time/effort!)

You could also frame the faith/reglion thing as magic/mythology/nature beliefs...something like that, potentially? Or don't call it anything...just describe the in-game world situation when promoting the game, without labels as much as possible. Seems like a tricky thing, but I'm sure your team will come up with something good if you're going to this much effort to sound out your market and hash everything out. :)
 
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Hysuka
Post Posted: Aug 11, 2020 8:05 am 
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Sorry for the inactivity, everyone! Been a bit busy with school this past weekend. :(

Gonna make an update post soon! :heart:

Code_Name_Geek wrote:
Oh yeah, and to throw in my two cents on minigames, I personally enjoy them as a bonus when they're not required for story progression. For example, some BokuMono games had minigames you could play with your animals that gave you bonus friendship points, but were totally optional otherwise. Maybe that's a good way to incorporate minigames so that players can choose whether or not to play them?


I love this idea! Minigames as more of an enrichment than a skill check!

Kikki wrote:
Like...once you got the baby-into-child event, I wished you could build a small side plot onto your house, where your child could either actually garden/farm, or at least be seen to be gardening. Even if it has just been cosmetic, seeing them wander around a decorative plot with big sunflowers and pumpkins and chinese lantern plants or pussy willows or strawberries (plants children are typically fascinated by or love to just grab and eat) would have been really cool.


Though personally I like to stick with my one, original MC, and would like the child's events and progression to just make them more unique and interesting. Maybe the events for the child could allow you to play AS the child, for the duration of that event. Like...their first time running an errand alone, or a play date with other children in town, or learning from their parent how to grow crops or tend animals, or...I don't know, the possibilities are pretty endless. But I think it'd be pretty cool to get to play as the child during an event like that.


I don't think any Boku/Farm Sim game has ever done that. And I don't see why not. It seems like a really simple thing to do. We could even make a mini game out of it like the Harvest Sprite training games in Friends of Mineral town! All in all, the kids should do something so the game doesn't feel over as soon as you have kids.

Blue Rose wrote:
By "rival kids" I mean kids produced from rival pairs. An example of really well implemented ones would be AP/ToT. The only con to those would be that if you married one of the pre-made parents, you would miss out on the rival kid. The solution to this would be have to have some kind of back up bachelor/ette who would be the parent in place.

If you wanted to do matchmaking, you could have kids tied to certain characters such as how Fire Emblem: Awakening and Fire Emblem: Fates have done it, but that is more work.

As far as the s/s adoption idea, that's good (and personally preferable to a deity randomly gifting you a child). You could have the "ask if they want to adopt" just "substitute" the pregnancy news event and have the "pregnancy/kid waiting" time duration be the same. It takes time for people to adopt kids irl so it doesn't have to happen instantaneously.

As far as child development goes, AWL/AnWL definitely had it best (although AP's was pretty good too) and I do wish we could have some thing like it again. But with AWL/AnWL, that really is framed around time passing on and characters aging and that would be a lot different than what most folks that enjoy the more modern Bokumono/farming games are used to. Not saying that as a good or bad thing, but that would be something to keep in mind.

But, if you just wanted the kids to grow to a certain age and nobody else; that is fine too and would work. If you wanted to have the "influence the child's interest" system, then 13-15 might be the ideal age.


These are really great ideas! I think pre-made rival kids are the way to go. We'll have to figure out how to navigate the situation in which you marry one of the parents of the rival kid but it'll be worth it!
We're leaning more towards the children growing up to a teen. AWL's child development went a long way to make marriage and raising a kid feel more involved and we're wanting to capture that feeling too. :)

Kikki wrote:
I don't think this was brought up in this thread, but there are a couple of features I know are wanted in a fairly wide-spread way. (Not unanimously, of course...NO feature is ever unanimously popular). One is that a lot of us would feel more motivated (if achievements of any type exist in the game) if our achievements were worth more. And by that I mean...when you catch your thousandth fish or make your ten millionth dollar or...whatever...it'd be nice if the reward for that was at least a little more significant than just a few words appearing on the screen for two seconds to acknowledge that you'd done it.

Just something in-game that shows the impact your time spent and choices made have had. Extra dialogue and events to make the world and characters deeper and more real seems to be the most popular thing, I think.


Oh wow, I've never thought about that before! Villagers should take note of your achievements. Perhaps if you fish a lot, villagers will begin to ask for your advise on fishing spots and good bait. :o

Kikki wrote:
And in talking about that one, I've forgotten the other one I was thinking of, lol. But overall I think a major point of widespread success would be remembering that while there is no possible way in any reality to make everybody happy (this is why I hate the Natsume motto, which is literally "Make everybody happy!" IMPOSSIBLE.) ...there are different camps of farm-sim afficionados. What makes the game fun for one person makes it stressful or tedious for another. That's why I think making gameplay as flexible or customizable as possible is the key to pleasing the largest group of people...let them create their own game as much as they can while still working within the frame of the game you want to make. Let people choose their own difficulty. Let them focus on crops or animals or socializing, without making one clearly more important/useful than the others. Let people unlock things early via a bit of extra hard work, or simply wait it out peacefully. (Like I always bust my butt to unlock sweet potatoes by Fall of Year 1 in ANB, which is not easy...but it can be done if you're willing to put in the time/effort!)


You have no idea how much I love this philosophy of game design! I've always believed that the best games allow the player to create their own narrative/fun within the framework of the game itself. This is why I think Skyrim and Stardew are so popular. They both give the player the freedom to explore the world and come up with their own backstory for their player character and set their own goals.

Kikki wrote:
You could also frame the faith/reglion thing as magic/mythology/nature beliefs...something like that, potentially? Or don't call it anything...just describe the in-game world situation when promoting the game, without labels as much as possible. Seems like a tricky thing, but I'm sure your team will come up with something good if you're going to this much effort to sound out your market and hash everything out. :)


Definitely agree with you on the magic/mythology/nature terms! That's more of what we're going for. It may have been a misstep to use those real world terms.
 
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LeBurns
Post Posted: Aug 11, 2020 9:07 am 
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Hysuka wrote:
LeBurns wrote:
Big yes to rival marriage and any other features that add life to the other villagers after you've gotten yourself hitched. I really hated the HM and RF games where after you picked your bride the others women are just expected to be spinster's for life cause you didn't pick them.


I hated that too!! Perfectly single bachelors and batchelorettes would just walk around as if they didn't have aspirations of getting married and having kids themselves. It always makes it seem like everything stops after you get married which we want to avoid.

How do you think we should go about pairing villagers that you don't choose to marry?


This can be complicated. I recall in RF2 (I think) that you basically pic your spouse, and then others had set match ups with what was left. Though, stealing Cecilia from Jake during their wedding was one of the highlights of my gaming life, I'll never forget that. But this is the easiest, just let the PC pick who they want, and match up what's left.

To add more complication to it, you could, like you can in Fire Emblem, let the player help set up the other pairings. In fact thinking about it I really like how FE let's you pick yours, then help build relationships with others that may or may not match up later. This, can get complicated for sure, but it's like the best of both worlds.

Course another option, that I'm personally not fond of, is having everyone racing to get hitched, with the PC in the middle of it. This requires the PC to dedicate some serious time to spouse hunting (if they want one) which means less time farming, mining, crafting, etc.

One thing I would like to add, is I love it when I am hunted. For example I may have my eye on a couple people for being a potential spouse, then all the sudden some person I didn't pay a lot of attention to shows up at my farm saying they made an extra apple pie and wanted to give it to me. I'm suddenly like "Who are you again?", and I'm suddenly interested in them. The later HM and RF games have gotten better with the potentials showing some interesting in the PC, which is great since in the older games the PC did ALL THE WORK (looking at you Popuri ... ... here's another egg).
 
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Hysuka
Post Posted: Aug 17, 2020 9:40 am 
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LeBurns wrote:
Hysuka wrote:
LeBurns wrote:
Big yes to rival marriage and any other features that add life to the other villagers after you've gotten yourself hitched. I really hated the HM and RF games where after you picked your bride the others women are just expected to be spinster's for life cause you didn't pick them.


I hated that too!! Perfectly single bachelors and batchelorettes would just walk around as if they didn't have aspirations of getting married and having kids themselves. It always makes it seem like everything stops after you get married which we want to avoid.

How do you think we should go about pairing villagers that you don't choose to marry?


This can be complicated. I recall in RF2 (I think) that you basically pic your spouse, and then others had set match ups with what was left. Though, stealing Cecilia from Jake during their wedding was one of the highlights of my gaming life, I'll never forget that. But this is the easiest, just let the PC pick who they want, and match up what's left.

To add more complication to it, you could, like you can in Fire Emblem, let the player help set up the other pairings. In fact thinking about it I really like how FE let's you pick yours, then help build relationships with others that may or may not match up later. This, can get complicated for sure, but it's like the best of both worlds.

Course another option, that I'm personally not fond of, is having everyone racing to get hitched, with the PC in the middle of it. This requires the PC to dedicate some serious time to spouse hunting (if they want one) which means less time farming, mining, crafting, etc.

One thing I would like to add, is I love it when I am hunted. For example I may have my eye on a couple people for being a potential spouse, then all the sudden some person I didn't pay a lot of attention to shows up at my farm saying they made an extra apple pie and wanted to give it to me. I'm suddenly like "Who are you again?", and I'm suddenly interested in them. The later HM and RF games have gotten better with the potentials showing some interesting in the PC, which is great since in the older games the PC did ALL THE WORK (looking at you Popuri ... ... here's another egg).



Stealing Cecilia from Jake was my favorite moment of all time in Rune Factory. :twisted:

The only time I can think of a marriageable candidate going after the player instead was in AWL. When Celia approaches you during the winter if you haven't been wooing anyone. (lol I think it was more the game saying "you dummy hurry up and get married so we can move on to the next chapter of the game!" though.) So I really like the idea of the player being pursued as well. It gives the other characters a sense of agency.
 
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Hysuka
Post Posted: Oct 09, 2020 5:44 pm 
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:!: ~UPDATE TIME~ :!:

Great news, everyone!

We've partnered with some popular Harvest Moon/Story of Season content creators! So if you want to see a little bit more of Pre-Alpha build in action and get some first impressions, here we go! :heart:

Wilder is up first with some first impressions and thoughts.

https://youtu.be/xWZVoLivGjc

I was really excited to work with him as I've been a fan of his for a long time.
Be sure to give him a follow too!
https://twitter.com/CallMeWilder
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ2Y3yErURx0sSDB8j_FACA

Let me know what you guys think of new footage!
 
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Kikki
Post Posted: Oct 09, 2020 6:25 pm 
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That's great, Hysuka, that you're getting good press at this juncture; should drum up interest in advance of your Kickstarter! All the comments were glowingly positive, and the landscapes were really inviting. Can't say much else since that was the majority of what I saw, though I did see a peek of character interaction and some buildings in town, which looked like maybe there was more to build, or unlock.

Do people get to build their own avatars? Was the one in the video made by Wilder?
 
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Hysuka
Post Posted: Oct 11, 2020 6:25 pm 
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:lala: Next up with first impressions is Gammalad! :lala:



Words cannot express how excited I was to speak with this guy. I've been a long time fan of his as well! And he's just an all around cool guy.

Be sure to give him a follow as well:
https://twitter.com/Gammalad
https://www.youtube.com/user/Gammalad


Kikki wrote:
That's great, Hysuka, that you're getting good press at this juncture; should drum up interest in advance of your Kickstarter! All the comments were glowingly positive, and the landscapes were really inviting. Can't say much else since that was the majority of what I saw, though I did see a peek of character interaction and some buildings in town, which looked like maybe there was more to build, or unlock.

Do people get to build their own avatars? Was the one in the video made by Wilder?


Thanks, Kikki! I've been waiting to tell everyone about them for a while!

There's absolutely more to build. And I'm really excited about the character interactions! Charlie, the red head at the docks, is one of my favorite characters we've been working on so far. :heart:

The player character you're seeing in the Pre-Alpha builds are premade. This will be the same case in the public Alpha build released with the Kickstarter. There will be character creation in the full game of course!
 
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