How do we feel about some of the redesigns?
- midnighttherabbit
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Honestly, as much as I'd like for Nami to be nonbinary, I think there'd be too much backlash. Hopefully they'll include a nonbinary or trans marriage candidate in a future game with original characters, though.
I'm actually coming around to the redesigns I didn't like at first. I'm still not a massive fan of the bachelors, but I honestly disliked the FoMT redesigns more.
I'm actually coming around to the redesigns I didn't like at first. I'm still not a massive fan of the bachelors, but I honestly disliked the FoMT redesigns more.
- TahoeMario
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I can read only a little Japanese, but I can say that the "Nami as a he" bit is simply incorrect. I've seen some folks posting on Twitter about how google mistranslates Cecilia as "he" too but, if anything, they seem to actually be using "they" for Nami in the profile at least, which does sound more leaning towards nonbinary. So much so that I have seen Japanese fans on various sites questioning what gender Nami is now too. It said something like: "Mysterious and elusive, they have a cool aura that brings about many fans", which is just comparatively odd wording in general to that of the other candidates anyway, regardless of pronouns.
Nami is still listed and grouped alongside the bachelorettes either way though so I think, for me personally, it'd be perfectly fine if Nami was labeled as nonbinary. Although, that does seem like something that would just be done for better representation and wouldn't really make that much of an impact on the story. I mean, considering Nami was always kind of individualistic to begin with and especially since you can already marry the same gender in the recent titles now but yeah.
On that subject, this crossed my mind when they reposted the announcement of the "nonbinary" gender option alongside the "same gender" marriage again yesterday, where it appears to show a female MC with Nami and their baby... was this actually hinting at Nami being nonbinary by promoting those two features side-by-side? Showing a nonbinary MC married to an also now nonbinary character... maybe not but it did make me stop and think after this has been brought up so much.
As for the other characters: I actually prefer Matthew's design already. Aside from Gustafa, Cody and Pui, I range from indifferent to very positive on all of the rest of the cast from what we've seen of them. And, for those three in particular, I'll surely warm up to them after I see more of them in motion but I'm just so used to their previous designs that these new ones are still pretty off-putting to me. I'm waiting to see how badly they fumble Daryl and Hardy before I flip my lid too much
Nami is still listed and grouped alongside the bachelorettes either way though so I think, for me personally, it'd be perfectly fine if Nami was labeled as nonbinary. Although, that does seem like something that would just be done for better representation and wouldn't really make that much of an impact on the story. I mean, considering Nami was always kind of individualistic to begin with and especially since you can already marry the same gender in the recent titles now but yeah.
On that subject, this crossed my mind when they reposted the announcement of the "nonbinary" gender option alongside the "same gender" marriage again yesterday, where it appears to show a female MC with Nami and their baby... was this actually hinting at Nami being nonbinary by promoting those two features side-by-side? Showing a nonbinary MC married to an also now nonbinary character... maybe not but it did make me stop and think after this has been brought up so much.
As for the other characters: I actually prefer Matthew's design already. Aside from Gustafa, Cody and Pui, I range from indifferent to very positive on all of the rest of the cast from what we've seen of them. And, for those three in particular, I'll surely warm up to them after I see more of them in motion but I'm just so used to their previous designs that these new ones are still pretty off-putting to me. I'm waiting to see how badly they fumble Daryl and Hardy before I flip my lid too much
- PaleSunflower
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Nami being nonbinary (or male) raises the issue of the game having an unequal number of male, female, and potentially nonbinary love interests. Even if nonbinary is considered "extra" and doesn't need to be in equal number to the main two genders, then it raises the question of why Cody was added as marriage candidate at all, since, without counting Nami and without Cody, the male and female love interests would be 3 to 3. With Cody added, then that ratio becomes 4 to 3. In any case, I hope Marvelous/Three Rings didn't decide that the only gender-nonconforming love interest in the cast couldn't be a girl anymore.
(There is the possibility that the developers being sly about Nami's gender is minor plot point or something. Like, before an event, Nami considered nonbinary or male, then after an event where Nami clarifies her gender, the character is considered a woman. There exists another possibility that Cody might be nonbinary in the remake as well for all I know.)
As for the character designs, I find them more generic than the original. I guess it's okay and there's nothing that makes me super angry, but it makes me yearn for how they used to look. The character sizes were standardized as well, which is disappointing; no one really towers over the main character like in the original games. Vesta was implied to be overweight yet muscular, but the remake slimmed her down (especially her legs) and only kept the muscular part. Cody is no longer himself. I understand changing his proportions from the original, but I do not get almost completely changing his outfit (it looked like he made his own clothing in the original, but now it looks like he gets his clothing where the other marriage candidates shop for theirs) and removing his mohawk. Also, unlike Vesta, where the developers more or less kept her basic face shape, Cody has a completely different face now.
In general, I don't mind the less drastic character design changes, but, the greater the change, the more I tend to dislike it.
(There is the possibility that the developers being sly about Nami's gender is minor plot point or something. Like, before an event, Nami considered nonbinary or male, then after an event where Nami clarifies her gender, the character is considered a woman. There exists another possibility that Cody might be nonbinary in the remake as well for all I know.)
As for the character designs, I find them more generic than the original. I guess it's okay and there's nothing that makes me super angry, but it makes me yearn for how they used to look. The character sizes were standardized as well, which is disappointing; no one really towers over the main character like in the original games. Vesta was implied to be overweight yet muscular, but the remake slimmed her down (especially her legs) and only kept the muscular part. Cody is no longer himself. I understand changing his proportions from the original, but I do not get almost completely changing his outfit (it looked like he made his own clothing in the original, but now it looks like he gets his clothing where the other marriage candidates shop for theirs) and removing his mohawk. Also, unlike Vesta, where the developers more or less kept her basic face shape, Cody has a completely different face now.
In general, I don't mind the less drastic character design changes, but, the greater the change, the more I tend to dislike it.
- TahoeMario
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I did have the thought too that maybe they're trying to pull off another Yuri situation where Nami "hides" the fact that she's a girl but that would be hard to do with a remake when everyone already knows she's a bachelorette. Regardless, I don't think that Nami, or any character for that matter, would come outright and say: "yeah, ya know, I'm nonbinary" in any version of the game.PaleSunflower wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2022 11:27 am (There is the possibility that the developers being sly about Nami's gender is minor plot point or something. Like, before an event, Nami considered nonbinary or male, then after an event where Nami clarifies her gender, the character is considered a woman. There exists another possibility that Cody might be nonbinary in the remake as well for all I know.)
To be fair, they're not even using the term "nonbinary" like Xseed's trying to do in translation -- they're using the more general umbrella term of "sonohoka" or "Others", it's Male, Female and literally "the rest" *collar tug* This is because Japan doesn't widely understand nor recognize... or accept, is probably the more direct way of saying it, the ideology of nonbinary. A culture that has always historically been very much binary, their language is binary a lot of the time. So, it looks like Xseed is going out of their way to try and be more inclusive by applying "nonbinary" where Marvelous is maybe mistakenly conflating it all with general GNC. It still doesn't explain why they're trying to be coy about her pronouns though. I'd prefer it, like Midnight said, if they just held off on attempting to do anything like that until the next game with an all-new cast where they could make characters with that background in mind from scratch.
As for the rest of the characters, there was a transcript of an interview with Igusa that I read a few months ago where he was talking about how his favorite game in the series was HM64 and so, when they were remaking FoMT, he wanted to finally change the character designs so that they better fit the theme of Mineral Town as opposed to FlowerBud Village and I said, alright, fine, I can respect that but... what's the excuse here?! To differentiate them from their own descendants in DS?? That came later. It makes no sense. If you are someone who only played AnWL back in the day, or even DS Cute, then you're really being alienated from enjoying much of what's going on here.
I like the idea that Anna_Lynn had earlier on this topic where maybe more characters than just Lumina, Hugh and Kate drastically change their appearance as chapters progress. Gustafa grows his beard, Vesta puts on weight; Cody cuts his hair into his iconic mohawk and gets his gains on, etc. That would actually redeem a lot of the just bizarre changes they've made with half of this cast with me.
I guess that's what makes Nami special *for me*. Personally, I like androgynous looks, so she'll be a perfect fit for me this time hahah <3
I don't care about her sexual choices, I just think she's so perfect on this version.
And quoting a user above about Vesta.... let the fat girl be fat! I liked her old version better.
I don't care about her sexual choices, I just think she's so perfect on this version.
And quoting a user above about Vesta.... let the fat girl be fat! I liked her old version better.
- ataraxiansmile
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- Anonymous Fish
the redesigns are decent, but are just off to me. ive been playing awl since i was a little kid and i loved how the bachelors werent so young looking… and so anime boy looking. they looked like real people. im mostly bothered by “matthew” and cody.. cody looks like a pokemon trainer and if anything, HMAWL codys younger brother or smth. matthew just looks like a boring old generic anime boy. i liked how they werent so young and smooth and all this stuff looking.. but what can i say they all look kinda weird since im so used to how they looked before. also, nina looks really good shes my favorite character i love her so much!!!! <3
- osricpearl
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- Anonymous Fish
I was very upset about Cody's redesign at first, but now that I realize his original look was sorta based o Japanese stereotypes of black people... yeah, I can accept his change. I still like the original look, but I can understand why they would want to change him besides just making him more conventionally attractive. Also, I don't think he looks like a jock, he's SUPPOSED to look buff because he made his metal sculptures by hand, bending them with his own raw strength. He basically was the guy who looked like he could beat you up but was actually a cinnamon roll.
I don't mind the child redesigns, except that I'd prefer the original child age outfits for the sons. But the one thing that I absolutely HATE is that Rock isn't a natural blonde. I know there was some controversy in the original about him possibly being adopted, but if it just in the hair, blonde hair IS recessive. I could see him still being genetically related to Ruby and Tim, though I understand he WAS likely meant to be adopted. And even if he WAS adopted, who cares? Adopted children are still children! But maybe I'm getting too worked up over this, I just really wanted to know what the female version of his son from AnWL would look like.
I don't mind the child redesigns, except that I'd prefer the original child age outfits for the sons. But the one thing that I absolutely HATE is that Rock isn't a natural blonde. I know there was some controversy in the original about him possibly being adopted, but if it just in the hair, blonde hair IS recessive. I could see him still being genetically related to Ruby and Tim, though I understand he WAS likely meant to be adopted. And even if he WAS adopted, who cares? Adopted children are still children! But maybe I'm getting too worked up over this, I just really wanted to know what the female version of his son from AnWL would look like.
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- Anonymous Fish
So... We just can't have tomboyish female no more without calling them nonbinary? To me, she just a tomboyish female. But the rival in MM seem more of a Nonbinary character in my opinion. Since they can be both male and female base on what gender that you pick.TahoeMario wrote: ↑Sep 28, 2022 2:20 am I can read only a little Japanese, but I can say that the "Nami as a he" bit is simply incorrect. I've seen some folks posting on Twitter about how google mistranslates Cecilia as "he" too but, if anything, they seem to actually be using "they" for Nami in the profile at least, which does sound more leaning towards nonbinary. So much so that I have seen Japanese fans on various sites questioning what gender Nami is now too. It said something like: "Mysterious and elusive, they have a cool aura that brings about many fans", which is just comparatively odd wording in general to that of the other candidates anyway, regardless of pronouns.
Nami is still listed and grouped alongside the bachelorettes either way though so I think, for me personally, it'd be perfectly fine if Nami was labeled as nonbinary. Although, that does seem like something that would just be done for better representation and wouldn't really make that much of an impact on the story. I mean, considering Nami was always kind of individualistic to begin with and especially since you can already marry the same gender in the recent titles now but yeah.
On that subject, this crossed my mind when they reposted the announcement of the "nonbinary" gender option alongside the "same gender" marriage again yesterday, where it appears to show a female MC with Nami and their baby... was this actually hinting at Nami being nonbinary by promoting those two features side-by-side? Showing a nonbinary MC married to an also now nonbinary character... maybe not but it did make me stop and think after this has been brought up so much.
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- Anonymous Fish
I think in the OG a wonderful life. Nami was just a tomboyish girl and just shy being a bit girly and stuff. I don't think she could fix in the Non-binary category. Unless people see tomboyish girls as Non-binary...TahoeMario wrote: ↑Sep 30, 2022 3:24 am I did have the thought too that maybe they're trying to pull off another Yuri situation where Nami "hides" the fact that she's a girl but that would be hard to do with a remake when everyone already knows she's a bachelorette. Regardless, I don't think that Nami, or any character for that matter, would come outright and say: "yeah, ya know, I'm nonbinary" in any version of the game.
To be fair, they're not even using the term "nonbinary" like Xseed's trying to do in translation -- they're using the more general umbrella term of "sonohoka" or "Others", it's Male, Female and literally "the rest" *collar tug* This is because Japan doesn't widely understand nor recognize... or accept, is probably the more direct way of saying it, the ideology of nonbinary. A culture that has always historically been very much binary, their language is binary a lot of the time. So, it looks like Xseed is going out of their way to try and be more inclusive by applying "nonbinary" where Marvelous is maybe mistakenly conflating it all with general GNC. It still doesn't explain why they're trying to be coy about her pronouns though. I'd prefer it, like Midnight said, if they just held off on attempting to do anything like that until the next game with an all-new cast where they could make characters with that background in mind from scratch.
The can do one old character as a Non-binary. It's Jamie from MM since they could be either gender base on your character. But I feel like there be a lot more arguing making an old characters Non-binary unless it make sense like with Jamie, then a new character.
I like your point of view. I've been a tomboy my whole life (I'm 33 and I still am), but I identify myself as a straight woman. It's just part of people's personalities.Alone Farmer wrote: ↑Feb 07, 2023 6:55 am So... We just can't have tomboyish female no more without calling them nonbinary? To me, she just a tomboyish female. But the rival in MM seem more of a Nonbinary character in my opinion. Since they can be both male and female base on what gender that you pick.
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- Anonymous Fish
Sorry, if I sound rawr in my lost post. I been asked this question in real life too many time.... I was like no, why would you think I'm non-binary and they replied that I mostly dress boyish kinda and like some boyish stuff. I was like have you heard of tomboyish girls and they was like no.
- midnighttherabbit
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I mean, I don't think anyone's saying women can't be tomboys / masculine, it was just a mistranslation that lead people to think that she might possibly be non-binary. People tend to speculate/get excited since trans and non-binary characters in video games aren't all that common, and given that the player character can be non-binary now too, it isn't the biggest leap to make. I agree it wouldn't really work to change a character's gender in a remake and it would be better left for a new game though.
You don't need to apologise, I feel the exact same way. But back in my day I would be called a "dyke" for dressing in a neutral way... anyway, end of the off-topic rant. ^^Alone Farmer wrote: ↑Feb 09, 2023 5:50 amSorry, if I sound rawr in my lost post. I been asked this question in real life too many time.... I was like no, why would you think I'm non-binary and they replied that I mostly dress boyish kinda and like some boyish stuff. I was like have you heard of tomboyish girls and they was like no.