Re: The Life and Times of Harvest Moon Characters
Posted: Aug 07, 2010 10:03 pm
That's not canon. That's fanon. The creators determine what is canon. Multiple endings may create different universes, but that doesn't make them part of the overall HM storyline. Canon means that it's part of the overall storyline, and that is determined by the creators, either when they create the game or when they create the games that follow that game.Deme wrote:Multiple endings is the entire point of my theory. Chrono Trigger has Chrono Cross, which says that, actually, all your endings are in fact the creation of alternate futures. Alternate endings, equally valid, means that there are alternate canons, some of which lead to sequels, some of which do not.LonLon wrote:
Counter-point: Dawn of Sorrow. Also Chrono Trigger (or really any game with multiple endings. What about KOTOR?).
Right. But when you play and get married, it becomes the canon ending of your playthrough, even if it isn't the ending that's needed to continue to the 64 future.LonLon wrote:
Not necessarily. Keep in mind that the stigma still exists in YOUR mind, and perhaps the game designers didn't want you to rule out a possible marriage candidate because of ideas that you have about that. This also assumes that your character gets married in SNES. It is possible that that is not the canon.
As I already mentioned: Knights of the Old Republic. There's even a canon gender to KOTOR, even though there exist 2 genders and 3 endings, only one actually fits into the Star Wars canon. The same is true with Mega Man X games, for example. The canon of Mega Man X, for example, states that X got his upgraded blaster from Zero (not from a Light Capsule).
Again, I bring up Dawn of Sorrow, which had, iirc, three different endings (Soma becomes Dracula reborn, Soma defeats the two potential Draculas, Soma destroys the second's power and the other one copies his power, afterwards he defeats the potential Dracula). As the games follow each other, you cannot say that all THREE happened in the next game (of course, with Dawn of Sorrow, there hasn't been a game following it yet). Only one ending could lead to what events would follow, which makes one of those canon.
But you don't HAVE to get married in SNES. Just because YOU play it that way does NOT make it canon.Deme wrote:Actually, I'm arguing that it can be possible...But that it isn't always, so it doesn't always happen. The default notion of SNES-the-game (as opposed to SNES-the-point-in-timeline) is that the 64 future doesn't happen. The default assumption of 64-the-game (as opposed to 64-the-point-in-timeline) is that SNES-the-game does not happen, but that SNES-the-point-in-timeline does.LonLon wrote:
You're arguing both that it cannot be and that it must be. That makes no sense.
My idea, basically, is that the games themselves are not realities that lead to the other games, but that for every game there's an alternate offshoot where the game doesn't happen (but, perhaps, something like it does), and that those universes lead to other games. I admit, it's a bit hard to wrap one's head around, and it's very much a matter of splitting hairs.
Ah, so this again becomes an issue of fanon, then. We are not talking about fanon, we are talking about canon. The families are not exactly the same, but (in the case of Popuri, Mary, and Karen) they have the same mothers, (in the case of Elli) the same grandmother, or (in the case of Ann) the same father. As the MT bachelorettes are expies of the SNES characters, the same as HM64, it cannot be said absolutely that they are not the same characters.Deme wrote:Ooh, you just stepped on a sore spot with me... Because while they have the same names and physical appearances, I cannot state this enough: they. are. not. the. same. characters. And, more importantly, they don't have the same families. Not having the same families means that all assumptions that they have the same heritages is absolutely out the window.LonLon wrote: Anyways, as far as HM64/FoMT goes, those are the same characters, and so wouldn't the same connections exist? Let's not forget that that Ellen is alive in BOTH FoMT and HM64.
Again, you need to go past your own preconceived assumptions about what you want to be canon and look at what actually is canon. You've shown an inability to do that so far. The reason I say that they can follow from one another is because they present one set of characters in the first group (SNES, GB, MM) and another set of characters in the second group (HM64, FoMT, BTN), with slight differences.Deme wrote:I don't see why BTN would follow from MM-in-time. Having played both, the two games have nothing to do with one another. Also, I see no reason to tie the Gameboy HMs in with FoMT, since they don't have anything to do with one another to my recollection. SI and IoH most likely just exist in slightly parallell realities, both set a little after FoMT-in-time, in my book...Grand Bazaar could come from either of those points in the timeline, since both feature Pierre, since we have no specifics...Or he's an entirely different Pierre.LonLon wrote: The way I see it is this: HM64 and FoMT represent two different potential timelines (a la Zelda). They both canonically follow the events of SNES HM (keep in mind that a lot can change in the 50-60 years between SNES and HM64/FoMT), but do so as two different universes. FoMT then goes on to continue into the DS games.
Although there is the argument that FoMT could follow from the GB HM, BTN from MM, and HM64 from HM SNES. I have only played two of these games (and a little bit of SNES), but from what I understand of them, they could logically follow each other (as well as being very similar to each other). This would mean that three timelines would be necessary. I know that FoMT leads into the DS games, but what are the others? Also, what are the timelines of them (IE DS happens 100 years after FoMT, SI happens a few years after which, and GB happens X years after SI)? That's what this topic was supposed to be about (at least, that was the intention).
Zurielle wrote:HM:DS (Cute)-Same time period as the two previous, just a replication-it sure seems to fit even more, when you consider the fact that you get to Mineral Town through connection to the game (M)FoMT from another console(either DS or gameboy(if it's possible via gameboy(sp)). Just as you do with A(n)WL(SE).
But it's canon that it's 100 years later.
The game takes place in Forget-Me-Not-Valley, 100 years after the events of Harvest Moon: More Friends of Mineral Town. Unlike previous games in the series, which feature original characters, the characters in Harvest Moon: DS are descendants of the ones featured in Harvest Moon: Another Wonderful Life and Harvest Moon: More Friends of Mineral Town.
