Ushi No Tane Forum

I really meant better as in better gameplay, graphics will be the same but more people will buy for the Ps2 due to the fact most Ps2 games look more realistic than GCN games. The controls will most likely be smoother on a Ps2 controller.

I find that controls are easier on the gamecube. I played Resi:Code Veronica on DC, GC and PS2 and I got through the GC one better. Maybe I'm just wierd
Anyway, it hasn't even come out over here in Britain so I guess I'll have to wait for this... it looks so awesome.

You know Cassik, for once I'd LOVE to see you make an intelligent arguement. Just once.

Okay lets look at some things right quick, Ps2 goes for the Realistic look while Gamecube goes for the Cartoonish look. Look at Final Fantasy X compared to Tales of Symphonia, which are both good games but which looks more real? Now lets look at Baten Kaitos compared to Xenosaga, Xenosage looks more real. Now think about Resident Evil looking Cartoonish or looking more real. I have Resident Evil 4 for my Gamecube and I like it, but it will be better on Ps2.

Do you know how stupid you sound right now? Cel-shading is a more ADVANCE than regular graphics. If you read Miyamoto interview during last year's E3, you would have known. He said thing along the lines of "the realistic Zelda is easier to make than the cel-shaded Zelda". Also, if you check back on some really old interviews, it's one in some mag that I forgot. Anyway it was about porting Jet Grind Radio From Dreamcast to Xbox, the Sega guys basically said the COULDN'T Cel-shad the entire game on Dreamcast because the system is NOT POWERFUL enough.

Ok, now these old interviews are... well old and hard to find, but let's use our heads a little. Have you SEEN CEL-SHADING BEFORE the 128 bit systems? The answer is NO! Cel-Shading has never been seen on N64 or PSX.

Now let's play pretend Cassik. Let's pretend that you're right and Cel-shading is a weaker method of rendering graphics. Then how do you explain TOS on PS2? If Cel-shading is such a weak graphic techique, how come the PS2 version sucks so much? It has blurry textures, runs at HALF the frame rate of the GC version, and suffers from long load times. The same problem happened with the PS version Viewtiful Joe. Both games used Cel-Shading for it's graphics. Then if Cel-Shading is such a weak method, then that proves once again how weak the PS2 hardware really is. If it has problems rendering an "inferior" style of graphics, how do you think it'll be able to handle the more "superior" realistic graphics?

BTW here's a little something that might enlighten you...

"PS2 can't do realtime refractions, procedural textures, or dynamic lighting without severely hitting the polygon count. It also doesn't have any native texture compression (it can use palletized textures, but that's it). What this means is that the water and explosions will all take a signficant hit on the PS2. So expect Thing Under the Lake to look significantly worse. Expect rivers and waterfalls to look worse. Expect that cool effect of the rain hitting the lake to be gone. Expect explosions and gunfire to not light up the surrounding area. Expect the weeds, trees, and other environmental objects to be cut down, expect blurrier textures, expect slowdown when there are lots of bad guys on screen, and lastly, expect significant load times."

Terranigma Freak wrote:You know Cassik, for once I'd LOVE to see you make an intelligent arguement. Just once.

Okay lets look at some things right quick, Ps2 goes for the Realistic look while Gamecube goes for the Cartoonish look. Look at Final Fantasy X compared to Tales of Symphonia, which are both good games but which looks more real? Now lets look at Baten Kaitos compared to Xenosaga, Xenosage looks more real. Now think about Resident Evil looking Cartoonish or looking more real. I have Resident Evil 4 for my Gamecube and I like it, but it will be better on Ps2.

Do you know how stupid you sound right now? Cel-shading is a more ADVANCE than regular graphics. If you read Miyamoto interview during last year's E3, you would have known. He said thing along the lines of "the realistic Zelda is easier to make than the cel-shaded Zelda". Also, if you check back on some really old interviews, it's one in some mag that I forgot. Anyway it was about porting Jet Grind Radio From Dreamcast to Xbox, the Sega guys basically said the COULDN'T Cel-shad the entire game on Dreamcast because the system is NOT POWERFUL enough.

Ok, now these old interviews are... well old and hard to find, but let's use our heads a little. Have you SEEN CEL-SHADING BEFORE the 128 bit systems? The answer is NO! Cel-Shading has never been seen on N64 or PSX.

Now let's play pretend Cassik. Let's pretend that you're right and Cel-shading is a weaker method of rendering graphics. Then how do you explain TOS on PS2? If Cel-shading is such a weak graphic techique, how come the PS2 version sucks so much? It has blurry textures, runs at HALF the frame rate of the GC version, and suffers from long load times. The same problem happened with the PS version Viewtiful Joe. Both games used Cel-Shading for it's graphics. Then if Cel-Shading is such a weak method, then that proves once again how weak the PS2 hardware really is. If it has problems rendering an "inferior" style of graphics, how do you think it'll be able to handle the more "superior" realistic graphics?

BTW here's a little something that might enlighten you...

"PS2 can't do realtime refractions, procedural textures, or dynamic lighting without severely hitting the polygon count. It also doesn't have any native texture compression (it can use palletized textures, but that's it). What this means is that the water and explosions will all take a signficant hit on the PS2. So expect Thing Under the Lake to look significantly worse. Expect rivers and waterfalls to look worse. Expect that cool effect of the rain hitting the lake to be gone. Expect explosions and gunfire to not light up the surrounding area. Expect the weeds, trees, and other environmental objects to be cut down, expect blurrier textures, expect slowdown when there are lots of bad guys on screen, and lastly, expect significant load times."

Okay Terranigma Freak, here's a major arguement for you, as several people stated the Ps2 was weaker than the Dreamcast yet you say the Dreamcast couldn't handle Cel-Shading yet Ps2 pulls it off without a flaw.. That makes your entire Statement FUBAR if you know what that means. Let's check out some more things, which system has a higher fanbase (Ps2), which system has better games (Ps2), which system has a wider variety of games (Ps2), which system sold out and dropped their system prices to make a few bucks (Gamecube), which system still holds a decent price and sells more units (Ps2). By the way Zelda Wind Waker looked like a childrens book, Cel-Shading sucks nobody likes it. What the hell are you talking about Ps2 not running Cel-Shading, look at Viewtiful Joe 2 on Ps2, XIII on Ps2 thats Cel-shading. Also if Gamecube is such a hardware giant then why are most of it's games barely on par with Ps2?

Okay Terranigma Freak, here's a major arguement for you, as several people stated the Ps2 was weaker than the Dreamcast yet you say the Dreamcast couldn't handle Cel-Shading yet Ps2 pulls it off without a flaw..

Which genius said that? Everybody knows the PS2 is more powerful than the Dreamcast. Where in my thread did you see me saying the PS2 can't do Cel-shading? I said Cel-shading is a powerful rendering techique that requires a powerful system. The PS2 can render cel-shading, but it's not on par with Gamecube.

Let's check out some more things, which system has a higher fanbase (Ps2), which system has better games (Ps2), which system has a wider variety of games (Ps2), which system sold out and dropped their system prices to make a few bucks (Gamecube), which system still holds a decent price and sells more units (Ps2). By the way Zelda Wind Waker looked like a childrens book, Cel-Shading sucks nobody likes it. What the hell are you talking about Ps2 not running Cel-Shading, look at Viewtiful Joe 2 on Ps2, XIII on Ps2 thats Cel-shading. Also if Gamecube is such a hardware giant then why are most of it's games barely on par with Ps2?

Who's arguing about fanbase size? Who's arguing about good games? I can't find a good game on PS2 outside of Romance Of The 3 Kingdoms. Which company is bleeding cash even though their system has the highest fanbased? PS2.

Viewtiful Joe suffers from bad frame rate blurry textures and slow down. Both TOS and Viewtiful Joe were games made specifically on the GC hardware. Those games were on both GC and PS2 yet there's no denying the the GC version looks not to mention play much better than the PS2 counterpart.

TOS for example suffered in gameplay due to it's slow frame rate. On the GC version, the game runs at 60 fps, the PS2 version only runs at 30fps. The slow down causes problems in the timing of the battle system and screws up combo on the PS2.

You just said nobody likes Cel-Shading, yet you then turn around the defend VJ2 and XIII on PS2?

Many games designed specifically on certain systems always gets the short end of the stick during porting. Whether you're porting a PS2 game to Xbox, or GC game to PS2. They will suffer.

RE4 was specifically made for GC using all it's hardware abilities. None of the abilities are on PS2. Plus, have it ever occured to you that people don't spend time porting and makes plenty of lousy ports? It happens on ALL systems.

I wasn't defending Viewtiful Joe or XIII I was stating that Ps2 can handle Cel-Shading. Romance of the Three Kingdoms.... Try Kessen it's a better game and it deals with the same historical background. What about Kingdom Hearts, thats a bad game? What about Final Fantasy? What about Drakengard? What about Xenosaga? What about Metal Gear Solid? What about Need for Speed? Okay Romance of the Three kingdoms happens to be one of the worst games on Ps2.