The Unofficial E3 Story of Seasons Thread

[luph n joii]

@Rope: I know Marian is male. I thought he used feminine pronouns to refer to himself; sorry, my bad.

@Muse: I'll keep the discussion under spoiler tag to not derail the topic

Spoiler:

I think when it comes to transgender, they think them as entertainers (like drag queens of some sort), but not as sexual identity (those who aren't fit in the gender roles in the society; note that I'm not referring to transsexuals here). Transsexuals are accepted if they go under « Chicken Hugging » reassignment surgery. Your experience is interesting indeed, but that maybe it's because he is a public figure? If he is a normal average person, it might be different though I can't say that for sure. Even if they get « Chicken Hugging » reassignment surgery, I think only their family and close friends who will know about it since Japanese normally don't like to discuss their private life (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about). So the fact they are accepted is because they have this "don't tell" attitude instead of "I'm proud of being transsexual" like LGBT community in US or any other countries.

The acceptance toward LGBT comes more from the younger generation rather than the older generation. Japanese tend to put more emphasis on family rather than themselves. I have heard stories the story from one of my Japanese friends about his homosexual friend who is "ashamed" for being gay because he can't continue his family line and remains closeted (though I suppose this varies from one family to another). I can't say if this is generally true for all Japanese, but I can understand his concern. Same « Chicken Hugging » marriage is still illegal in Japan as for today. There are two options for them: marrying in other country where same « Chicken Hugging » marriage is legal or interestingly, "adopting" each other. Adult adoption is not unusual in Japan, and recently become a controversial alternative for same « Chicken Hugging » couple so they can live under the same unit legally and pass on inheritance right.

I think it's wise for Hashimoto to dodge the question because no matter which sides he picks, the other side will be unsatisfied with the decision. Homosexuality and gender identity are difficult to discuss without taking them personally or without sounding offensive. There's a reason why they are to be kept minimum in this forum.

Don't take my words for granted though; I'm telling this from what I heard and from several resources I found on the net. It was one of my English essay topic I've done before and both me and my professor found it to be really fascinating xD

Well about GrB, let's say we have different opinion there. I personally didn't enjoy it as much as I want to, but I'm glad you like it. I guess BokuMono is trying to become more realistic and complicated as it progresses, whereas Harvest Moon is trying to keep the simplicity. I think both sides are good, but good ideas with poor execution do not make good games. I guess we just have to wait and see.

[Taniyama Mai]

Onee means "big/grown up girl," but written in Katakana as オネエ, it is intended as a derogatory slang aimed at homosexual and transexual individuals.
Generally based off the stereotypical perception that all homosexual individuals are very effeminate.
But I think Marian is aimed at portraying the Onee stereotype in a more positive, rather than negative, manner.

Then again stereotyping a group is never a good thing.
But it is also wrong to assume that there are no people that fit them.
So I guess it really comes down to how the character designer intended Marian to be.
But I never got the sense that Marian was intended to be a mockery.

I think it might more be how others treat them. it's kind of like, in a book, if an author adds a racist character, the addition of the character doesn't make the author racist, but it's how the other characters react to them that's important. if the characters react negatively and tell them off (or react positively to Marian) then it shows that the author doesn't agree with what they're saying, but if the characters don't say anything/let them be and continue to be friendly with them/agree (or react negatively to Marian) then it tells us the author themselves feels that way.

for Marian, if he's treated kindly and like any other character by the other villagers, then they're trying to show him positively and as a productive member of their society, but if they try and avoid him or talk negatively about him, then it's the opposite. and since I haven't heard of any characters doing that, I'm gonna say it's most likely the former.

like I've said before, even if it's more common than it should be, even stereotypes deserve proper representation.

Acceptance to homosexuality are growing in Japan. However, transsexual and transgender are still frowned upon for some reason in real life. I blame them for portraying onee as "entertainers," and less as sexual minority. I agree with Osuchin that Marian is not supposed to ridicule onee character, but to embrace and portray her in positive manner. She is also a human who has feeling and identity, and I think BokuMono wants to emphasize that.

Speaking about the interview, it's really interesting to see the difference on what Japanese and western audience want. I fail to see how Grand Bazaar was catered to western audience since I see lots of people, including myself, didn't enjoy the game. I think Hashimoto is doing the right thing on approaching the game as a user. I'm not saying they don't need to take fans input into consideration, but when you create anything based on primarily user input, it probably won't go well since they may not even know what they actually want.

I just hope that both series will end well and have a healthy competition because this split has brought a lot of confusion to US and European audience, though I suppose when TLV is released in Japan, the opposite will be happening there too.

(I see you guys are putting it under a spoiler so I will too)

Spoiler:

from what I've seen, it's the opposite. yes LGB is not that far and still treated REALLY badly (from my understanding it's kinda like Russia, they seem to think being gay means being a pedophile o.e) but being transgender is perfectly accepted. they take a stance of it being the same as a birth defect like a cleft lip or an extra finger. you just need some surgery and you're completely "normal" again. idk if surgery is easy to access or not, but I do know doing things like changing your « Chicken Hugging » on things like licenses and changing your name and such is MUCH easier than it is in the US. Japan is basically the opposite of what we are here.

from what I've seen, it's drag queens and crossdressers they don't like. they have pretty strong gender rolls in their society and people who crossdress/are drag queens don't fit that roll, but people who are transgender do, they just fit the opposite roll than what they were born (or at least, that's more or less how they see it)

I really liked GB...it was the last game I was actually able to play more than a month of..I haven't read the interview yet, but since no one seems upset with it I'm going to assume it was pretty good?

that's if it gets released. unless it does REALLY well here I doubt it will. I mean, they seem to basically be using nothing but HM's name to sell this, which won't work over there. it'll need something really good to be able to sell well enough without the name (and if they end up with as many typos and such translating the opposite direction, even if they did try and sell it I doubt it'd do well enough to be worth it, or even for their next game to also go)

@Melody: you're right, and Georgio is more...metrosexual. basically what that means is he's a straight guy who is more effeminate than typical straight guys and they greatly care about their appearance. I will admit though, most metros don't wear as much pink...he does come off as more stereotyped flamboyant gay than metro, as metro is more they shave their body, they get their hair done, have their nails done (like, properly filed and such, rarely painted though maybe a clear coat) they wear designer clothes (which he matches) and care more about fashion than most guys (which he also fits)

so unless he also ends up with a boyfriend or something, I'm gonna say he's more meant to be metro. (kind of like Julius, although Julius was also more gay-stereotype than metro, unless American metros are very different than those in Japan)

[Melody Muse]

@Luph & Taiyama:

Spoiler:

Thanks for the information, guys! I heard the legal switching was easier too, but wasn't exactly sure. Either way, it sounds like it's a complicated issue.

Also, doesn't Japan also have a third gender that's fairly socially accepted? I know here we tend to call them crossdressers, but from my understanding there is a "feminine male" (for lack of a better term) third gender in Japan that is fairly accepted, albeit considered not normal, so acceptance is kinda eh overall maybe. I was told this was called "okama" but I have heard a lot of mixing up of if that term is offensive or not, so I am hesitant to even use it here. I have heard so many things about the term okama, that it's a slur, or a third gender, or just a slang for homosexual. But generally what I have heard is that it's truly a third gender but since we don't have a culturally accepted third gender in the US, we don't really know how to translate it as our culture doesn't have a true third gender. (Not as in they don't exist! Just that we don't have a cultural third gender, like say, the muxe from Mexico. I thought Julius and Howard were meant to be this third gender, since I know Julius gets mad in the Japanese ToT when a girl stutters "O" and he goes "Were you going to say okama?!?!"

I will admit GrB had it's flaws. The characters were all pretty shallow (which is why I ended up marrying Dirk; he seemed the most deep to me, oddly enough). I agree that we will have to wait and see, but I have high hopes for bokumono/story of seasons to continue to improve.

[Osuchin]

@Rope: I know Marian is male. I thought he used feminine pronouns to refer to himself; sorry, my bad.

Marian tends to speak using feminine speech patterns, for the most part.
But he does use masculine pronouns in the Japanese version.

for Marian, if he's treated kindly and like any other character by the other villagers, then they're trying to show him positively and as a productive member of their society, but if they try and avoid him or talk negatively about him, then it's the opposite. and since I haven't heard of any characters doing that, I'm gonna say it's most likely the former.

That is partially what I meant by that Marian is portrayed in a more positive light, than a negative one.
It really comes down to the character creator's intentions and how they portray the character within the narrative.
And for the most part, Marian is portrayed as a compassionate and admired individual within the game.

[Taniyama Mai]

@Luph & Taiyama:

Spoiler:

Thanks for the information, guys! I heard the legal switching was easier too, but wasn't exactly sure. Either way, it sounds like it's a complicated issue.

Also, doesn't Japan also have a third gender that's fairly socially accepted? I know here we tend to call them crossdressers, but from my understanding there is a "feminine male" (for lack of a better term) third gender in Japan that is fairly accepted, albeit considered not normal, so acceptance is kinda eh overall maybe. I was told this was called "okama" but I have heard a lot of mixing up of if that term is offensive or not, so I am hesitant to even use it here. I have heard so many things about the term okama, that it's a slur, or a third gender, or just a slang for homosexual. But generally what I have heard is that it's truly a third gender but since we don't have a culturally accepted third gender in the US, we don't really know how to translate it as our culture doesn't have a true third gender. (Not as in they don't exist! Just that we don't have a cultural third gender, like say, the muxe from Mexico. I thought Julius and Howard were meant to be this third gender, since I know Julius gets mad in the Japanese ToT when a girl stutters "O" and he goes "Were you going to say okama?!?!"

I will admit GrB had it's flaws. The characters were all pretty shallow (which is why I ended up marrying Dirk; he seemed the most deep to me, oddly enough). I agree that we will have to wait and see, but I have high hopes for bokumono/story of seasons to continue to improve.

you're welcome^^

as for third genders, I haven't a clue. that's where my knowledge drops off =/ all I know is they do have gender neutral pronouns that are commonly used, but idk if that's the same thing..

yea, it wasn't perfect, but I'll take flat characters any day if it means I can play the game...plus idk if that was the translation or if they were just flat =/

That is partially what I meant by that Marian is portrayed in a more positive light, than a negative one.
It really comes down to the character creator's intentions and how they portray the character within the narrative.
And for the most part, Marian is portrayed as a compassionate and admired individual within the game.

yea, from what I've heard, I'm really happy with how they're treating Marian. I mean, don't characters often go to him for advice? that's pretty big. you typically only go to people you trust for advice, and if you have something against LGBT people, they'd be the last people you'd go to for that kind of help. plus I seem to remember someone describing him as a "well respected doctor" which if that's stated directly from the site or game that's a pretty huge indicator of how they're presenting him.

I really don't think we have anything to worry about with Marian, other than currently being the only true gay representation right now, but hopefully that will change in the near future.

[Guest]

Would you guys say that he was at all like Howard from a tale of two towns?

[Taniyama Mai]

who? Marian or Georgio? (is that how you spell it? I forget..) that requires very different answers.

[Guest]

Marian. I meant Marian before as well.

[Taniyama Mai]

ah, alright.

I would say no. for one, Marian has a boyfriend and therefor is gay, while Howard had a wife who died. I think it was implied that he only acted feminine to compensate for the lack of a mother figure in his child's life, while Marian obviously does this for himself. Marian is more like Georgio or Julius than Howard (to me) but I guess it depends on what you're curious about what would overlap between them.

anything besides this I can't really say as I know very little on Marian besides what's been shared here.

[Guest]

Where did you guys get new information like the names? There hasn't been anything new lately...

[Night Owl]

Where did you guys get new information like the names? There hasn't been anything new lately...

Hatsuu's Tumblr is where we got the names from. Also, XSeed has their own forums, so there is also that resource. There's been a lull in information lately. XSeed has a lot of other games slated for release before Story of Seasons, so just sit tight. I'm sure once some of their other projects are done they'll give us more information.

[Liliana93]

Been a while since I last posted, anyway yeah I noticed information hasn't been flowing as readily, they're a small company so translating multiple games must take quite a lot out of them. Ironically I've actually forgotten a lot about the game itself cause it's been a while, but that's fine, I'm alright with forgetting stuff like that, I get to be re-excited for the new information that comes out.

Also I find it interesting that Marian dresses like a girl but identifies himself as a man, it's quite an interesting.

[RopeMaidenKirie]

Well, I can't imagine that we'll get that much information that we don't already have? I mean, besides the names.. what else is there to really show? Maybe a couple of translated photos and whatnot eventually.

It was the same with RF4. We basically already knew everything about the game since it came out so much earlier than the localized version did. We got a few trailers, a few screenshots, and the website (which had the voices so that was exciting, but we don't have to worry about that with HM) but that comes much closer to launch. They are still in the early stages of localization, so yeah.

[Osuchin]

Where did you guys get new information like the names? There hasn't been anything new lately...

Hatsuu's Tumblr is where we got the names from. Also, XSeed has their own forums, so there is also that resource. There's been a lull in information lately. XSeed has a lot of other games slated for release before Story of Seasons, so just sit tight. I'm sure once some of their other projects are done they'll give us more information.

Actually most of them came from Cher when she was at XSeed's booth at E3.
The only ones that came from Hatsuu, that we didn't hear from Cher, was the info that some of the name changes were being reverted back.

[Guest]

I wanna know how they'll translate wantatan.