Lack of LGBT representation in BokuMono games

[Guest]

One thing I've noticed during my many years of following these forums is that one of the most talked subject seems to be the lack of same « Chicken Hugging » marriage and gay characters. And while there are a lot of complaints about there being none, there usually aren't many who can understand the reason why. So I figured I'd give some light on why things are the way they are.
Note! This topic may have some subjects that some of you may deem heavy so keep that in mind if you continue reading.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that BokuMono (so previously Harvest Moon, nowadays Story of Seasons) is made by a Japanese company, mainly to the Japanese market. The overseas market is often not a major factor when making games and definitely not a priority. This means that the makers don't necessarily think that the game needs features that please the foreign market simply because the amount of sales over here isn't significant enough to impact their success.
This means that things that are these days taken for granted in western media are not always relevant to Japanese media. This includes same « Chicken Hugging » relationships and LGBT representation, among other things.

Why this is, is because Japan is still a very close knit community, and sometimes even narrow minded and xenophobic. A very common attitude there is "do what you want but don't be open about it/ don't bother other people because of it", and for a long time that has also been the attitude towards LGBT people. Of course in the recent years these things have started to change, but for your common Japanese citizen anything relating to the subject is often still a mystery. Keep in mind that for the longest time it was commonly thought that trans women were just gay men who wanted to be women in order to be able to do it with men. So I wouldn't really trust a game company with accurate representation yet.

Now, a lot of people make the argument "but BL/yuri is popular over there!" in favor of gay rep. However, not only do those pander to otaku (pretty much a nerd for those of you who don't speak weeb), they are most of the time NOT an accurate portrayal of actual gay relationships or life, and are mostly aimed at straight men and women, not for the LGBT crowd. The average citizen does not know or care about these, and a lot of otaku who do like BL or yuri don't actually care for LGBT related stuff in real life. That is to say, gay content in media in Japan is often found in relatively niche markets and often there for pandering purposes.

And that is how we get to the original point. BokuMono games are made to appeal to a wide market of relatively normal Japanese people, and due to the low age restriction it also needs to be kid friendly. BokuMono are not, and most likely never will be made for the otaku market. For the average Japanese citizen, especially for the parents who buy the games for their children, the game openly advertising same « Chicken Hugging » relationships might be a turn off and that means a loss in sales. Considering how BokuMono should first and foremost be a farming game rather than a dating sim in the first place, at this moment in time it would be a waste of time and even a possible loss in profits for the games to implement same « Chicken Hugging » marriage. The western audience just does not bring in enough sales to have an impact on this decision, and a big reason towards that is that most of the profits often go to the localization team and very few people want to buy the games in Japanese because Nintendo region locks their consoles (which is a dumb decision on their part but anyway).
Also, to not put the whole blame on the original company, a lot of the subtle ways to get away with implied same « Chicken Hugging » relationships were then removed or changed in the localization. So it's not like they haven't tried, it just got removed before the game made it's way to us.

But like I said, things are slowly changing over there, and for example the Rune Factory franchise has been a little more friendly towards the idea of same « Chicken Hugging » relationships because it's not aimed at the average salaryman but more to the otaku-type audience. So while I wouldn't hold my breath on same « Chicken Hugging » relationships or proper gay rep happening any time soon, there's always the possibility they'll eventually make it happen.

That's pretty much it! Hopefully this helped some of you understand the lack of rep in the games and maybe give some insight on why the market here doesn't necessarily come to the attention of the game makers. Also please keep in mind that my purpose is not to villainify the Japanese, but merely bring to attention how their culture is very different from major western ones. I'm also not trying to down play the importance of LGBT rep in media, just trying to explain why it might not be present in certain situations.
Also to avoid confusion, I won't be responding to this topic anymore in order to not get mixed up with other possibly anonymous posters.

[Guest]

It's incredibly condescending to simply assume people don't get it, especially since this has been rehashed over and over in other threads.

[Terra575]

It's incredibly condescending to simply assume people don't get it, especially since this has been rehashed over and over in other threads.

This.

Most people who want LGBT+ representation in harvest moon are well aware of why it hasn't already been included. We've been discussing the cultural and market diferences on this forum for years.

I disagreed with several conclusions you made, but there's only one I feel is worth pointing out–-the idea that including same-« Chicken Hugging » marriage would somehow make the games less family friendly. There is no reason why allowing the MC to marry someone of the same gender should give it a higher rating. I mean for crying out loud, it's not like it would suddenly become gay porn. I'm sure the romance would be just as kid-friendly as HM romances usually are. As for that "concerning parents" who buy the games for their kids, it's not like the feature would need to be advertised on the front of the box. I see no reason why it couldn't be just a seamless feature of the game like anything else.

[Blue Rose]

It's incredibly condescending to simply assume people don't get it, especially since this has been rehashed over and over in other threads.

This.

Most people who want LGBT+ representation in harvest moon are well aware of why it hasn't already been included. We've been discussing the cultural and market diferences on this forum for years.

I disagreed with several conclusions you made, but there's only one I feel is worth pointing out–-the idea that including same-« Chicken Hugging » marriage would somehow make the games less family friendly. There is no reason why allowing the MC to marry someone of the same gender should give it a higher rating. I mean for crying out loud, it's not like it would suddenly become gay porn. I'm sure the romance would be just as kid-friendly as HM romances usually are. As for that "concerning parents" who buy the games for their kids, it's not like the feature would need to be advertised on the front of the box. I see no reason why it couldn't be just a seamless feature of the game like anything else.

To be fair, that used to be a common concern in like the 90s-00s. Mainly so for a lot of niche games who couldn't afford a limited market and/or controversy. Also, in some countries, they do actually put higher ratings because of gay marriage. Happened to the Sims 4 series in Russia, they made it strictly for 18+. Probably doesn't hinder the Sims series too much cause it's huge, but nonetheless. That sort of thing is probably less common, especially in the west where it's become rampantly more normalized/less controversial. But it was a common concern from a business point of view way back for western market, probably still applies in the current Japanese market. There is no "reason" other than people's prejudices. But if the prejudice is heavily in the marketed area/culture/community; it's a concern from a business point of view.

Ultimately, due to foreign/western influences Japan is becoming more accepting of LGBT, but it is a slow process. Which we all know, but still.

[Terra575]

To be fair, that used to be a common concern in like the 90s-00s. Mainly so for a lot of niche games who couldn't afford a limited market and/or controversy. Also, in some countries, they do actually put higher ratings because of gay marriage. Happened to the Sims 4 series in Russia, they made it strictly for 18+. Probably doesn't hinder the Sims series too much cause it's huge, but nonetheless. That sort of thing is probably less common, especially in the west where it's become rampantly more normalized/less controversial. But it was a common concern from a business point of view way back for western market, probably still applies in the current Japanese market. There is no "reason" other than people's prejudices. But if the prejudice is heavily in the marketed area/culture/community; it's a concern from a business point of view.

Ultimately, due to foreign/western influences Japan is becoming more accepting of LGBT, but it is a slow process. Which we all know, but still.

I'm well aware of this, given I heard about it a lot in the 00s. But I don't think most regions still up the rating in 2017 just because there's a gay character. As you said, it was a common concern back then. Some areas still do, of course, like Russia, but for the most part I don't think that would still be the case for a new HM game. In that sense there has been progress in the gaming industry in just the last 5 years.

[Getaris]

Oh you'd be surprised. You still live in a world where having one gay character can make something go from "that thing" to "that gay agenda brainwashing thing" in social media.

Things are progressing, but it's slow.

[Terra575]

Oh you'd be surprised. You still live in a world where having one gay character can make something go from "that thing" to "that gay agenda brainwashing thing" in social media.

Things are progressing, but it's slow.

No, I wouldn't be surprised, given how many homophobic comments I read on twitter/youtube on a near-daily basis. But in this topic I am speaking stricly about Harvest Moon, and I don't think having one gay character would bump up their rating. They've already had characters like Marian and Howard that challenge gender stereotypes, and I don't believe that changed the rating. I know those are different issues, but they're similar enough to show some progress, imo.

[ChaosAzerothCat]

North America was the one to in fact even take out the best friend system.

We didn't even get lesbian lite.

Also I did a lot of research, and everything I saw pointed to while marriage wasn't legalized in any areas for a long time if ever, that same « Chicken Hugging » marriages were informally respected overall for a while now. Yes there has been a lot of homophobic stuff, but there has been in NA too and honestly it's just fairly recently same « Chicken Hugging » marriage has been actually legal in NA.

Honestly I find it a bit sad that there was some vague/borderline mental/emotional abuse and alcohol abuse in HM64 and there hasn't been a game over E10+. Anytime rating gets brought up by anyone official it's a vague comment, not even that it WOULD but that it COULD, and reads like a cop out. If they were like hey look we presented this and went over it and got information that says were looking at a Teen game then it'd be more believable. Every single time I see it it's worded in a way that gives no indication that it would for sure or WHY it would. Just hey it's complicated, just take our word for it.

No offense, but I don't know y'all. I don't trust people I DO know when they give such a vague and half-assed answer. Why are you expecting more trust and faith from me then makes sense to give? No offense genuinely meant, I just don't work that way.

I put a lot of effort into looking into this to see that while things have been bad, they don't appear to be what we've been told offhandedly honestly.

I find it interesting you decided to post something so base/repeated and vaguely condescending and then post that you refuse to reply.

[theboysareback]

Th-the discourse.... On my forum? It's more likely than you think. Get this condescending anon back where it came from or so help me.

All memes aside, homophobia is everywhere. We're all well aware... North America may be considered progressive, but some of my experiences running my local sexuality and gender acceptance club say otherwise.

[Sanne]

I'm happy that it's at least possible to make your character look what you want them to without gender restrictions. We're not there yet, but we're slowly moving forward.

I can't wait for the day we'll finally have proper gay marriage. :)

[Tsunyan]

What the devs cannot afford to include yet we can sometimes make happen ourselves by knowing our way around the game's intestines.
Sure, that's not progress but who am I to sit on my hands waiting for progress that is out of my control? Might as well do what little I can and offer that bandaid that is sometimes just enough to make people happy.

[nightshade2010]

funny thing is no one notices the yuri stories on lovestruck or episodes on android .....heck love struck went through a whole pride week special .....