About the Natsume HM games...

[Kikki]

Hehe that's interesting because I started to lose interest in the bokumono games after ANB (which as some people might remember is my least favorite game in the series), and I think the art style actually helped with that.

You're not the only one. I specifically remember a year or two ago around here there were folks saying they've grown away from Bokumono games starting with ANB (including trying SoS, not based on ANB alone) because they just miss the older stuff and didn't like the direction it was going. I'm the opposite, but at the same time, if the older games were what you loved, I can see why you'd begin to feel disassociated starting at ANB (my fave, above both SoS and Trio...I just loved the town restoration) because there was definitely a shift in gameplay (and style) at that point, since that's what brought me into the series.

I'm very curious about Bokumono Switch and if it will again change style in gameplay or art. It almost has to change a little, art-wise, but that may just mean the same as what we've got but at a higher resolution. I want them to keep getting spiffier. I'd kind of like art a little like The Whispered World where the backgrounds look like watercolours...but I don't know how that would work out or if anyone else would like it. I may just be a little too fond of watercolours.

I didn't like RF4 the first time I played it because I couldn't figure out what to do with the million options I had, because it gave me a farming tutorial but didn't really seem to be a farming game, so I floundered with it. I picked it up a year later, just fell into the story naturally for some reason, and went nuts for it. I don't really have any hope for an RF5 but I'd certainly jump on it like a starving hyena if it appeared. (I actually played the first Rune Factory back when it came out, too, but I'd half forgotten about it. It was fun, but not overly memorable, even though I actually did a lot more farming in it than I did in RF4. I liked the story in RF4 and loved the characters and that's probably what it comes down to.) I really like the blend of things you can do in RF, with making your own weapons of all different types, and foods with stat effects, being able to fight and tame, and farm both normal crops and magical ones...it's just a blend I find really fun, though RF4 could have stood a bit more focus on farming.

I hope Natsume continues to improve. To me it looks bad but I don't know their sales numbers or anything like that...maybe it just looks like they're going downhill to ME and their sales would actually say their tactics are quite successful. I want MORE farming games on the market, not less.

[Getaris]

Natsume already went with the simple prerendered 3D style, and stardew valley will cover the pixel art front. If they want to stand out in the sea of switch farming, Marvelous needs to make a fully 3D game, and that's not cheap.

They gotta take their time, make a new engine, perfect a new art direction, etc.

[RopeMaidenKirie]

I don't remember which RF it was, but there were dungeons/puzzles that required certain crops or growing certain crops in dungeons in order to proceed. I think it was both 1 and 2 that did it? I feel like if they added more of that it might be a bit more farming centric for people. RF4 felt like full on social simulator (so many EVENTS) while the post game (3rd story) dungeon was so brutal so many never even finished.

I mean, I adore RF, one of my favourite game series of all time, but the farming really took a backseat in 3/4. Maaaybe having to maintain the Runies in RFF made them wary of over including it again.

Yeah, I think for people who value simplicity in their farming sims, RF would be incredibly overwhelming at times. Some of the systems are pretty complex, and while you can solely farm, you aren't going to get a lot out of it or be able to advance much without moving ahead with the story, so I totally get why it's not some people's cup of tea. Some people just don't want battle systems mixed in with their farming sims too, which I know some people had an issue with in SDV as well.

@About Natsume's sales numbers, I think I remember seeing CeeCee say somewhere their HM games have sold above expectations. Maybe that was solely for TLV, but I can't remember exactly where I saw it.

[Kikki]

Natsume already went with the simple prerendered 3D style, and stardew valley will cover the pixel art front. If they want to stand out in the sea of switch farming, Marvelous needs to make a fully 3D game, and that's not cheap.

As long as it's NOT pixel art, I'll probably be fine with it. I haaaaaaaate games that come out in 2017 in pixel art! I was playing pixel-art games in 1988 and by 1998 they already all looked like junk to me, even though I loved them when they were new. We're now nearly another decade down the line and they're still bringing out brand new games with pixel art?

It's one of my major peeves in gaming. But I know some people like it and it's probably a style that's going to stay around forever. It's just that nothing in the world can make ME like it, in this day and age. I can understand it in an indie game by a small company or single person who doesn't have the art skill to produce anything more attractive, but still...pixel art alone can often completely rule a game out, for me. I've seen high quality pixel art, but though it's more tolerable, it's still not something I like much.

Natsume's style looks too child-like to me. Not chibi or anything like that, just too...over simplified? I'm not sure how to express what I feel that style is, but to me it looks very unsophisticated and flat, like a children's storybook.

I won't like a game's style just based on it being 3D, though. 3D can be really ugly, too (Oblivion's character design, eurgh!). I'm okay with the style as it is now, but it might not be good on Switch. Maybe the Tales of sort of 3D-anime blend? I'm not sure. I wonder how they'll handle a single screen, too...hopefully the screen doesn't get too cluttered. But we're not going to see anything about art style for a good while yet, I'd think, so I guess no point in wondering this early (though I can't stop myself from it, it seems.)

@About Natsume's sales numbers, I think I remember seeing CeeCee say somewhere their HM games have sold above expectations. Maybe that was solely for TLV, but I can't remember exactly where I saw it.

Whatever their numbers are, I hope they're good enough for Natsume to continue trying new things. I'll keep checking their new releases to see if any of them look like something I'd enjoy as long as they keep bringing them out. For now I don't think I'll be buying, but who knows what it'll be in ten years?

[ChaosAzerothCat]

Hey you leave my mad fake bf alone! ((Nah Oblivion isn't terrible but like most games didn't age the best..))

The weird thing is other than pacing being absolute garbage IMHO ((the last 2 vendors are a kick in the teeth/most other content behind a time wall rather than possible to earn at all)) I loved the first SoS but also love the older games and Natsume's games and Trio and all of it.

[Nightlight]

Admittedly, I have yet to play any of Natsume's Harvest Moons. I kept trying to get interested in them enough to buy one, but something always stopped me. SV was especially hit with a case of bad timing and "couldn't compete with the competition," for me. I don't hate Natsume, and I think it's nice that people nowadays have more choices in farming sims than just Bokujou Monogatari, but I have come to realize that their HMs just don't appeal to me very much (at least at the moment.) I wish Natsume the best of luck with their games and hope that one day they'll make one that makes me go: "I have to have that," but until that day comes I'm just going to stick with SoS and SDV (and if that day never comes that's OK, I don't have to like every farming sim that comes out on the market .)

On the topic of the SoS game on the Switch, I kind of hope they'll do what RFF did and have a 3D game with 2D portraits. I know that console HM games haven't had 2D portraits since BtN (I think,) but I keep thinking about how pretty RFF's were and how wonderful, IMO, it'd be to have portraits like that in a console HM/SoS game (plus I think it'd be a good way to help mix their handheld and console styles together, since the Switch is a hybrid.)

[SakuraMota]

@Kikki: While I am of course sad the terraforming will be absent in LoH, I also really enjoyed Seeds of Memories, so I'll be okay with it.

You and I seem to be polar opposites when it comes to farm games, LOL. I love pixel art (and dabble in making it), I love the more simplistic art style of the Natsume HMs, found many of the Skytree characters interesting and most of Trio and SoS's characters boring...It's just interesting to see how opinions can differ.

When I play farm games, I create a strict schedule that I adhere to pretty much with very little deviation. This is intentional, as it helps me to remember important things. I can't tell you the number of times I've forgotten to feed my animals or water my crops because my schedule was interrupted. I have ADD and forget things easily because I get distracted, so scheduling helps me, both irl and in farm games. The problem I have is BokuMono has so many features that it's impossible for me to fit them all into my schedule, and because of that, some features go by the wayside. For example, I almost never went to the vacation spots in ANB because I could never make time for it. Watching me play HM is probably like watching a robot play it, LOL. I also play like a hermit and very rarely engage in the social activities. I'm the kind of person who finds a way to juggle 600+ crops just because I can and because it's just satisfying to me. The repeated process of watering every day, watching them grow, and the extra fun in the Nats games when I get a mutation, it's just relaxing for me. It's my zen.

On the subject of Skytree vs TLV, I have to say I enjoyed STV far more, most likely because of the tool upgrades. I really enjoyed TLV, but my biggest problem with it was I felt like I was held back from my true potential because I could only water one at a time. Skytree's upgrades allowed my cropaholic flag to fly, and I freaking love it.

[Kikki]

You and I seem to be polar opposites when it comes to farm games, LOL.

It does seem that way. I dislike repetition. It's why I want to learn knit or crochet, and just can't force myself to go through with it. Repetitiveness makes me irritated and impatient. Though I do tend to follow a schedule in bokumono games. I always tend my crops and animals first thing...I never leave the animals for evening, for example, since I have a horrible memory. My attention span is fine, but my memory is like cheesecloth.

I WOULD have preferred Skytree, by a fair amount, but because I had already played TLV, by the time I got Skytree, I was already bored with it, since it didn't feel very different. The improvements were fairly big in their way (more interesting story to follow, better tools, heads not so gigantic, actual village that spiffs up a bit as you progress, etc) but not enough to make it feel fresh, for me. I do think it's the better game and if anyone wants to try a Natsume game for the first time with 3 games already available, Skytree would be my recommendation, quite a bit above TLV, which I only played more because it came first and was all new, then. So that I played TLV more is more of a technicality than anything about actual preference.

[SakuraMota]

You and I seem to be polar opposites when it comes to farm games, LOL.

It does seem that way. I dislike repetition. It's why I want to learn knit or crochet, and just can't force myself to go through with it. Though I do tend to follow a schedule in bokumono games. I always tend my crops and animals first thing...I never leave the animals for evening, for example, since I have a horrible memory. My attention span is fine, but my memory is like cheesecloth.

I WOULD have preferred Skytree, by a fair amount, but because I had already played TLV, by the time I got Skytree, I was already bored with it, since it didn't feel very different. The improvements were fairly big in their way (more interesting story to follow, better tools, heads not so gigantic, actual village that spiffs up a bit as you progress, etc) but not enough to make it feel fresh, for me. I do think it's the better game and if anyone wants to try a Natsume game for the first time with 3 games already available, Skytree would be my recommendation, quite a bit above TLV, which I only played more because it came first and was all new, then. So that I played TLV more is more of a technicality than anything about actual preference.

And see, I do crochet, for the same repetition reasons. xD A classic case of "different strokes for different folks."

[Celestrian]

Admittedly, I have yet to play any of Natsume's Harvest Moons. I kept trying to get interested in them enough to buy one, but something always stopped me. SV was especially hit with a case of bad timing and "couldn't compete with the competition," for me. I don't hate Natsume, and I think it's nice that people nowadays have more choices in farming sims than just Bokujou Monogatari, but I have come to realize that their HMs just don't appeal to me very much (at least at the moment.) I wish Natsume the best of luck with their games and hope that one day they'll make one that makes me go: "I have to have that," but until that day comes I'm just going to stick with SoS and SDV (and if that day never comes that's OK, I don't have to like every farming sim that comes out on the market .)

On the topic of the SoS game on the Switch, I kind of hope they'll do what RFF did and have a 3D game with 2D portraits. I know that console HM games haven't had 2D portraits since BtN (I think,) but I keep thinking about how pretty RFF's were and how wonderful, IMO, it'd be to have portraits like that in a console HM/SoS game (plus I think it'd be a good way to help mix their handheld and console styles together, since the Switch is a hybrid.)

I was thinking of a good way to put this and this is it. Natsume's version just doesn't work for me and I personally find it dull as I did with the first SoS but Trio got me interested again and I intend to try Stardew Valley too.

I also agree in regards to Switch SoS.

[Guest]

IMO Natsume just isn't [i]trying[/i] and it's obvious. They're not putting the time into making the game, they're not even trying to make the script and dialogue high-quality, they're not trying to innovate in any way that hasn't been done before, and whatever "improvements" they make are basic and should be no-brainers; I mean, come on. Having a town? Being able to buy fertilizer? Giving gifts? None of these should have to be counted as "improvements". It's like selling you a car with no steering wheel and then releasing a newer model that has one. Sure, it's an improvement, but it should have been there from the start and plenty of other cars on the market have been sold with steering wheels for years now.

/rant

[Guest]

I don't think most people are touting them as innovative improvements, but as evidence that they are listening to and directly acting to constructive fan feedback. I don't like giving gifts so I don't have much to say there. Having a convenient way to purchase fertilizer as opposed to having to earn the rarest once via quest grinding was a great improvement to the flow of Skytree Village's mutations. Groundbreaking? No. Nice? Yes. And something SoS could certainly take a lesson from. There is a point where complex tasks stop feeling rewarding to overcome.

[ChaosAzerothCat]

I don't think most people are touting them as innovative improvements, but as evidence that they are listening to and directly acting to constructive fan feedback. I don't like giving gifts so I don't have much to say there. Having a convenient way to purchase fertilizer as opposed to having to earn the rarest once via quest grinding was a great improvement to the flow of Skytree Village's mutations. Groundbreaking? No. Nice? Yes. And something SoS could certainly take a lesson from. There is a point where complex tasks stop feeling rewarding to overcome.

I feel like, to be fair, SoS did learn a little since Trio felt way less burnout inducing than the first one.

But yeah, that's the thing. They're feeling out what they want and in the process not closing off to what the players want. Most companies can't really boast that in my experience at least.

The thing is they didn't want to just carbon copy SoS, they wanted to go the direction they had wanted for so long which was more farming oriented. Now that they have the chance instead of carbon copying older games they're trying to find their own fresh way of making farming the forefront. Clearly they're trying to balance challenge and relaxing fun. I can't wait to see how they flesh out each and every new game, because I know that we're walking right along side them and helping in the shaping process.

I can't say there's other games that make me feel like they're growing with both a clear vision and the fan's vision both in mind in fair balance.

[Guest]

The games just look like shoddy copies of the GBA/SNES titles with terribly bland characters.

I feel bad for the casual HM fans who don't realize that the Bokumono games are now Story of Seasons. I've even heard some stores refused to sell SoS and instead went with the HM games because HM was the recognizable brand name. I've seen quite a few HM newbies on Youtube play the Natsume games because they're on mobile. They don't recognize the difference.

Tbqh, I wish Natsume would give the names to xSeed and continue their spiritual successors under a different name. "Harvest Moon" is such a damn good name and it rolls off the tongue. "Story of Seasons"... Is just not. Even "Farm Story" or "A Farmer's Tale" sounds better.

[Guest]

[quote="Lenna36"]So I wouldn't know Pete either.[/quote]

... Do new HM fans really not know Pete? That's such an odd idea. He's THE HM protagonist. I guess it has been a while since he's been used. 10 years? Adam was pretty much Pete with a new name.