Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon

[Kikki]

EDIT: I'm sorry this is so long. I've just been considering the series for a few years and all my curiosity exploded all over this post.

Soooo...with no intent to be disingenuous, I don't understand Pokemon Ultra Sun/Moon. I've even been reading reviews and articles online, and I'm still a bit lost. At first I'd heard that they added a bigger story to it and that was what made it an 'ultra' version, but it sounds like that is not the case. I know Nintendo is famous for selling their customers basically the same game over and over with just a few details tweaked each time (not just Pokemon but basically all of their first-party IPs to varying degrees), but with this it seems even more like buying exactly the same game over again, so I'm curious.

You see, I've never played a pokemon game, before, since my information-gathering on the topic suggests that the game is story-lite and very repetitive, neither of which are to my taste in gaming, and the graphics don't seem like anything special either (I am capable of being dazzled based on glorious graphics alone, but they have to be pretty amazing to make me forget that there is no compelling plot to follow). If I ever do play it, I will probably only ever play ONE, since it doesn't seem like the type of game I'd want to play again unless the next game in the series was notably different from the last, which I believe is not usually the case. I have played the demo of both the original Sun/Moon and for one of the other games...I think 'X and Y'. I haven't found them to be very interesting, but then, the demos are pretty shallow...they don't introduce much story, if there is much story there at all. I thought they were sort of cute and thought maybe I'd like it if I played the real thing, but first I hear something that makes it sound like I'll like it this time, and then I see more information suggesting that that's not the case, lol.

What is the point in Nintendo releasing 'ultra' sun/moon? If the changes are as small as some articles and reviews suggest, why isn't 'ultra' simply DLC rather than a whole new game? Simply because they know people will buy it and they like money (not a crime...companies do need to make money!)? If that's not it, then what makes people buy it if they already have the first version? Is the story better? More epic or detailed? Or does it have a lot more Pokemon in it? I'm trying to gather more information since I can't decide if this is the full pokemon game I should commit to actually buying to play it properly, or if I should just continue to ignore this series. If someone was only ever going to play ONE pokemon game...would Ultra Sun or Ultra Moon be the game you'd recommend when considering gameplay/graphics/plot? Or should it be an older one (though the graphics get uglier as you go backwards, imo, which is a huge downside for me) or maybe wait for a future one? Maybe one on Switch, say, when the graphics may get spiffier.

I feel like I'm supposed to just stop being curious and put it behind me since I've kept hearing that the story isn't as different as initially suggested, but this series is SO MONSTROUSLY POPULAR (pun not intended) that I can't stop myself from continuing to look at it, to see if any of them look like they'd be fun for me, too. Is this basically a game series designed for cute-animal-loving completionists and otherwise not of interest, or is there something else that contributes to its amazing popularity?

[Ehppy]

I might not be the best person to answer your question Kikki, because I haven't played Ultra Sun or Ultra Moon, but I did play both the original Sun and Moon and I have read up on most of the new features of Ultra. (For simplicity's sake I'm gonna abbreviate Ultra Sun and Moon to USUM here.)
The main thing USUM has over the originals is extra features. There's a photo club so you can take cute pictures of you and your pokemon and put stickers on them, you can find collectibles around the islands, there's a new battle challenge of sorts that pits you against old series villains. But the originals are still complete games and I don't feel these features add a ton to the overall experience.

If what you care about is the story, and you haven't played any Pokemon games before now, then from what I have heard you are best off playing the original Sun and Moon. Again, I haven't played USUM, but I did do some reading because I was curious about the story changes. Everything I have heard tells me they botched the story in USUM. It has some themes in common with the original Sun and Moon, but things are changed around in a way that makes characters less interesting, and their choices/motivations make less sense.
Sun and Moon actually does have a fairly big emphasis on the story and characters compared to past games, particularly the character arc of Lillie, which I found very enjoyable to watch unfold.
That said, the series has never been about the story taking center stage, and so it's nothing necessarily groundbreaking, but it serves as a nice narrative to guide you through the world.

In Pokemon the story is always second to something. The main focus of the games is still catching pokemon, building a team and becoming the very best™. But with Sun and Moon in particular, they did take care to craft an enjoyable story with a few surprises and fun, and even touching moments.

From what you've said of your preferences, if you want to try a pokemon game, I'd definitely recommend Sun and Moon, the originals, not USUM.

But yes, at its core pokemon is for animal-loving completionists.
Though not everyone takes that approach. I usually don't actually go out of my way to "catch 'em all." I prefer keeping a tight-knit party of my favorites. One of my favorite things about the series is how unique everyone's party is. Everyone has such different tastes.


Edit: I feel it's worth mentioning this as well, you play a silent protagonist in the pokemon games, and so your character isn't as influential in the overall story as other characters. The focus is more on your character's friends and the other characters you meet, though your player character is still important in a few different ways.
Much like with Harvest Moon games, I like to come up with my own backstory and personality for my character, so I don't mind too much, but I know silent protagonists can be a deal breaker for some when it comes to story in games.

[Kikki]

Thanks for taking so much time to give me more information to try to sort out my confused opinions on this series, Ehppy, I really appreciate it

I have heard both for USUM...some people have been saying (in articles and comments sections) that the story is now more streamlined and presents better, whereas others have been saying it now feels choppy. And one opinion does not seem to outweigh the other, so far...I hear both about equally as often. So it's pretty confusing to gather info on this game, so far!

Perhaps I should wait another year (or however long it will take) to take a look at Pokemon Switch, since I'm not impressed with the 3DS pokemon graphics. (Some of the scenery looks very good but the characters and pokemon lines look very grainy to me.) The graphics may shoot up in quality even if little or nothing else changes.

I love Link and Cross (Cross being the default name for the player-made avatar main character of Xenoblade Chronicles X) so sometimes a silent protagonist is just fine with me, though I do usually prefer to play an actual character.

[Nightlight]

@ Kikki. Sun and Moon are pretty story-driven mainline Pokémon games so, if story is what you're after, they seem to me like a good starting point for you (talking about the original games. I haven't played US/UM and, from what I've heard of them, I think I'm going to skip them.)
A little bit of a warning about the "waiting for the Switch game" plan, there is no guarantee that the next Pokémon games are going to have a lot of story in them and be as/more story-driven than Sun and Moon. They could be, I would love it if they were, but Pokémon generally isn't about the plot that much, and Black and White (the most story-driven games to date at the time,) were followed by X and Y, games with a pretty standard Pokémon story, IMO (they had some interesting things in them plot wise, but not a lot, IMO.)

However, if you're truly interested in Pokémon games with emphasis on story, and are looking for games more consistent with how story-driven they are, perhaps try checking out the spin-off series called Pokémon Mystery Dungeon. There are currently four games in the series (not counting the WiiWare games,) called Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team (DS)/Red Rescue Team (GBA,) Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky (DS,) Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity (3DS,) and Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon (3DS.) They play a lot differently from regular Pokémon games, so I suggest looking up gameplay videos to see what you think of it, but they also put a big emphasis on the story, to the point where the story is pretty much the main attraction for a lot of PMD fans (including myself.)

IMO, the Explorer games are the best and I recommend you get the Sky version of them (if you end up wanting to buy one of the versions,) because it added some stuff. However, I've heard you don't like pixel graphics and that is something that the Explorer games have. If that really is a deal breaker for you, then one of the two newer games would probably be more up your alley. Of them, I'd recommend Super Mystery Dungeon.

[Kikki]

A little bit of a warning about the "waiting for the Switch game" plan, there is no guarantee that the next Pokémon games are going to have a lot of story in them and be as/more story-driven than Sun and Moon.

Yes, you're right; it's not actually a plan, to be honest. I wasn't thinking that Pokemon Switch would necessarily be story-driven since it seems that most are not (of all the games, I've only heard that Black and White and Sun/Moon have a stronger story element, which is why I thought with 'ultra' Sun/Moon supposedly being an improvement on a game with already good reviews, it might be the right time to finally actually buy a game and decide once and for all if it's something I can get into or not). I was only thinking that the graphics will probably be nicer than 3DS graphics as I have loved the graphics of everything Nintendo has come out with for the Switch so far. I mean, I do not like platformers, and Mario has never been my thing, and the Rabbids are teeth-grindly horrible and annoying creatures, I am complete garbage at driving or flying simulators, and yet...Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and M+R look so good to me that I am tempted to get all of them even though I know it's a bad idea, lol. I almost feel like I could enjoy them on the eye-appeal by itself.

So that's all I was thinking when I said I could wait to see Pokemon on the Switch, because if Pokemon Switch follows the trend so far, it would automatically be more to my taste than any other Pokemon game so far, and if the graphics are nice AND there's a story, it significantly increases the likelihood that I'd get into it. Most people have told me that story in Pokemon is about as important as plot in a Mario game. There is a general idea there to give some sort of shape, but doesn't actually matter...it's supposed to be the gameplay that appeals, as far as I've heard.

It's the allure of a game that's super popular. I don't know if anyone else is like this, but when a game is extremely popular with not just the masses, but also with people whom I know play a lot of OTHER games I like, I really feel like I should be trying it, that it's supposed to be in my (very very small) niche. It's always nice to find a new series to enjoy, especially if it's almost guaranteed to keep coming out with new games. I suspect that no matter what, I won't like Pokemon...I just WANT to like it, so the desire to at least try it won't leave me. But I don't have money to waste, lol, so I've got to wait for the best chance to try one...until the game looks as appealing to me as I think it can, within the realm of things reasonable to expect.

I have looked at Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games before and thought they looked more interesting than what I'm used to seeing with any game with the word 'Pokemon' attached, but I haven't looked at anything in-depth on them yet since the idea is to try an actual Pokemon game with main-line Pokemon gameplay...the collecting and the battling and so on. Mystery Dungeon seems like it spins fairly far afield of the core games.

Thank you

[Ehppy]

Thanks for taking so much time to give me more information to try to sort out my confused opinions on this series, Ehppy, I really appreciate it

I have heard both for USUM...some people have been saying (in articles and comments sections) that the story is now more streamlined and presents better, whereas others have been saying it now feels choppy. And one opinion does not seem to outweigh the other, so far...I hear both about equally as often. So it's pretty confusing to gather info on this game, so far!

Perhaps I should wait another year (or however long it will take) to take a look at Pokemon Switch, since I'm not impressed with the 3DS pokemon graphics. (Some of the scenery looks very good but the characters and pokemon lines look very grainy to me.) The graphics may shoot up in quality even if little or nothing else changes.

I love Link and Cross (Cross being the default name for the player-made avatar main character of Xenoblade Chronicles X) so sometimes a silent protagonist is just fine with me, though I do usually prefer to play an actual character.

Not a problem! I actually kinda like discussing/running my mouth about games.
I should thank you as well for reading through my ramblings. I hope they can help at least a little.

Ah, I see! I had looked into it a little bit but I'm not planning on picking up USUM (I own both sun and moon already) so I wasn't looking at as wide a pool of opinions on it I imagine.
A lot of long-time pokemon fans don't care for story in the games, so when Sun and Moon first came out, there was a definite split of people who liked it, and people who thought there was too much story.
I saw a lot of people talk about having to mash the a-button constantly to skip text.
USUM foregoes the beginning-of-the-game scenes and sequences to get you playing as fast as possible, whereas Sun and Moon eases you into it by introducing you to some key characters and plot elements before you even get your first pokemon.

I haven't watched any lets plays, so without playing the game myself I can't say for sure how it all comes together, but it sounds like they made some odd choices of characterization.
I mostly only read vague statements about the story but there were a couple parts where I read specifics that make me think the characters might come off as confusing and inconsistent. (Example; A character had their motives changed in USUM versus their original counterpart, but they leave in a rather big scene that contradicts these new motives and it goes unexplained.)
A highlight I hear people referencing is that certain character's backstories are expanded upon in USUM, but it sounds like a trade-off in that regard.

I wish I'd actually played USUM and could give a more complete perspective. I feel like it's maybe not a good idea to try and judge which would be better without actually experiencing them both myself.

Cross is a pretty good example for how the pokemon protagonists are! They have a hand in seeing the plot move forward, but the focus remains mostly on other characters (Like Elma and Lin.)
I guess pokemon protags are even a little less important in that you don't really have a backstory of your own to explore. Your goal is to take on the island trials (in most other pokemon games it's gyms) and become an island champion, but you make friends and help them on their own journeys as well.

[Kikki]

Cross is a pretty good example for how the pokemon protagonists are! They have a hand in seeing the plot move forward, but the focus remains mostly on other characters (Like Elma and Lin.)

Even though I say I prefer playing a character, I lovelovelove Cross. (Or whatever you choose to call him/her in your own game.) Even I think that sounds a little weird to say about a player-made character with no backstory, and I'm the one saying it, but...Cross is special. Being an empty man (or woman) with no memories and no specific place in society is exactly right for that story. To know nothing...to be confused and unsure of your place in a world where humanity has been unhoused and existence itself is precarious...it's perfect. The amnesia, so trite in other games, is absolutely essential, imo. Cross represents the state of all humans in that game, to me. You have to create his (her) story yourself out of nothing...it's what everyone in that game is doing, because everything is gone, and it's confusing, and no one is really sure how it all ended up that way. I don't feel like playing a character (such as if you played as Elma) would work nearly as well.

Link is voiceless but feels like a distinct character to me. I've been imaging the MC in the Pokemon games to be like the MC in Bokumono games. Not as much fun as Cross, but necessary in a sim. Not sure how it'll feel in Pokemon but I think I could handle the voiceless/characterless type of MC, as long as it feels like they have a place.

I AM going to try a Pokemon game some day...I really am. But I think maybe Ultra is not the one. Thanks, everybody. (Ehppy and Nightlight in particular, of course, though I've read most of what is in this thread, trying to gather enough info to make a decision on, so I've gotten useful stuff from a lot of folks.)

[Domineam]

^ To give my (slightly different) opinion:

I don't play Pokemon for the story at all. And that's not to say I don't like story-driven games! I love them. But Pokemon just does not fit in with those games (for me personally, I know for others it does). Please keep in mind the newest Pokemon game I have played is BW, so I'm pretty far back because honestly I prefer the older games and the newer and more gimmicky the series gets, the less interested I become. I could replay the rest of the series for eternity anyways so that's totally okay with me, and I'm not trying to « Puppy Doodoo » on newer installments because I'm sure I would still enjoy them (just not enough to justify buying them all when I have a backlog of games already haha)! I play Pokemon for the strategy (of battles) and a bit of the collection aspect. To breed and train the perfect team to become the Champion (and play with others, if you're more into that) is extremely fun for me. What six Pokemon will best cover all weaknesses, and in battle itself, what set-ups will work well. Do you want to play a more complex drawn-out set-up or do you want to just KO everything but be more at risk? Playstyles can vary hugely so I really enjoy that aspect.

If I didn't enjoy these aspects and played Pokemon solely for the story, it would not impress me. Although that might be because I've played through so many Pokemon games and heard the story so many times. You're a kid, get a Pokemon with your friends, work your way through the gym leaders in a pretty linear fashion to become the Champion and help some people along the way. I feel like Pokemon doesn't need a riveting story because it is so customizable and has many things you can focus on. If you're into kind of, roleplaying a bit and coming up with your own backstory, it's well set up for that. But it is not like Zelda/Final Fantasy/etc. whatsoever in terms of an engaging story imo. It's bits of story interspersed with strategy (to progress through the leaders) and general battling/grinding (through other trainers to move forward to the next area or just to level up for tougher battles). Actually I guess I would compare it a bit to Final Fantasy, haha!

That being said, it seems that the newer games are becoming more story-based from what I hear so if I were to recommend one to try I would definitely go newer. BW had the most fleshed out story to date from what I've played, so I would reason SM might have gone even further in that direction. And just because I don't play Pokemon for the story doesn't mean you won't, like I said Pokemon has a lot of different aspects and ways to play so it is different for everyone! You might love it, who knows. I'd be more surprised if you hated it, tbh, because there is a bit of something for everyone and there's a reason it's so popular. So I think it's worth a shot.

At the end of the day though you're only going to know if you'll like it once you've tried it for yourself. If not, it's not the end of the world. I've bought games before and realized it's not really my thing and just resold them. I don't know what your situation is but I would recommend:

First of all playing any demos still in the eShop
Watching some (early, if you want to avoid spoilers) let's plays. Or, going that route, you could watch through a let's play of a slightly older Pokemon game and if it seems like you'd enjoy it, grab a newer title that isn't spoiled for you
Is anyone you know locally into Pkm? borrowing would be the best way to try of course but I know it's hard if you don't have friends into the same niche games as you!
On that note, I think there are a few online services that rent video games (game access is one), although I've never tried this service so might require some research
Buy a used copy of the last version (like SM) so it's not as expensive of a risk if you don't like it. If you don't, you could resell it for not much of a loss (or no loss if you find a good deal) or trade it in at a game shop towards your next purchase

Pokemon is a hard series to explain because it's quite unique, but I would definitely recommend giving it a try! I think gamers with interest in all genres find themselves enjoying Pokemon, so I think that really says something about the wide appeal it has. Good luck!

[Ehppy]

Cross is a pretty good example for how the pokemon protagonists are! They have a hand in seeing the plot move forward, but the focus remains mostly on other characters (Like Elma and Lin.)

Even though I say I prefer playing a character, I lovelovelove Cross. (Or whatever you choose to call him/her in your own game.) Even I think that sounds a little weird to say about a player-made character with no backstory, and I'm the one saying it, but...Cross is special. Being an empty man (or woman) with no memories and no specific place in society is exactly right for that story. To know nothing...to be confused and unsure of your place in a world where humanity has been unhoused and existence itself is precarious...it's perfect. The amnesia, so trite in other games, is absolutely essential, imo. Cross represents the state of all humans in that game, to me. You have to create his (her) story yourself out of nothing...it's what everyone in that game is doing, because everything is gone, and it's confusing, and no one is really sure how it all ended up that way. I don't feel like playing a character (such as if you played as Elma) would work nearly as well.

Link is voiceless but feels like a distinct character to me. I've been imaging the MC in the Pokemon games to be like the MC in Bokumono games. Not as much fun as Cross, but necessary in a sim. Not sure how it'll feel in Pokemon but I think I could handle the voiceless/characterless type of MC, as long as it feels like they have a place.

I AM going to try a Pokemon game some day...I really am. But I think maybe Ultra is not the one. Thanks, everybody. (Ehppy and Nightlight in particular, of course, though I've read most of what is in this thread, trying to gather enough info to make a decision on, so I've gotten useful stuff from a lot of folks.)

I love your analysis on Cross and I agree completely that it fits the tone and overall themes of the game so well. I loved played as Cross, and actually had a backstory planned out for them (the second time I played anyway, as I went in the first time as blind as possible.)
Amnesia is a bit overdone in video games and fiction in general at times but I've also seen some examples of really cool things being done with it (Tales of the Abyss is comes to mind.) I think it's well-placed here.

Also I agree that Link is very much his own character! He is silent, but he's got so much personality and character in just his movements and the very minimal voicework he has. I also really enjoy the fan-works that involve Link using sign language.
When Breath of the Wild came out I started seeing a lot more comics with this idea and I love them. ;u;
Link is one of my favorite game characters. He is a goofball a lot of the time but such a good heart.

Glad we could be of help! Maybe when the next mainline game comes out we'll see you on the boards playing alongside us. Maybe not, but it would be fun for sure!

[Guest]

I have played at least 1 of every version pokemon game that has ever come out, including ultra sun. I have seen a lot of people talking about how ultra sun and ultra moon have the same story as sun and the only differences being things like photo club or surfing, but thats really not true at all. It is true that the story is very similar, but the same can be said for every 3rd version in the series, like yellow, crystal, emerald, or platinum. in fact, if you are comparing to a game such as platinum, ultra sun and moon have many more story differences. the thing most people dont seem to be getting is that they are not a continuation of sun and moon, they are an enhanced version of the story told in an alternate timeline.

now i will try to not spoil anything so i'll try to keep things vague. a lot of the beginning of the story is the same, but once you get to a certain island the story is completely different from there on out with no similarities after that point in storytelling. some of the trials are different, some have different trial pokemon, and they have added in a ton of random side stories all over that are just hidden and optional to complete. I actually just finished the main post game story last night, so i feel like im in a pretty good place to form an opinion about it at this point.

i will say that i enjoyed sun and moon a lot if anyone might be getting the impression that i am biased at this point. i finished my pokedex, i breed competitive pokemon, i hunt for shinys, and i put over 100 hours in regular pokemon sun. after having said that, i can say that ultra sun is 100% the better version of the games if you were only going to play one, i would play one of the newer ones. as for how story driven the game is, it has plenty of story and short cutscenes. my playtime after completing the post game story is 60 hours, but that is with me taking my time and not really rushing through it. im not sure how fast someone could just rush through if they ignored everything else, but that also doesnt sound very enjoyable to me and im not sure why anyone would rush through a game in the first place.

anyway, sorry for the long rant i just wanted to throw my opinion out there since it seemed like a lot of people were saying the game was bad just based on reviews or things they may have heard about it without actually trying the game themselves. honestly not sure why ultra sun and moon get so much flak when yellow, crystal, emerald and platinum were just fine with people. if its because of the fact that its 2 version instead of 1, im going to just guess its because they added new pokemon and thats never happened in a 3rd version before.

[Lenna36]

^Thank you. I haven't gotten too far into Ultra Moon to give my opinion of the game. So I'm glad that you spoke up. Still on the first island myself so any of the differences I've seen are just little things hinting at a different story. I'm also the kind of person to try things out for myself before saying anything. So thanks.

[AmazingFarmer]

I just got Ultra Sun a couple days ago! I love the Pokemon surfing!At least the cut scene for getting you starter Pokemon isn't 3 min long!

[modernmorphling]

Before I go to buy Pokémon Ultra Sun/Moon, could someone tell me what the differences between these versions, and the original Sun/Moon versions are?

[Guest]

Things that ultra sun/moon have that originals don't include mantine surfing which rewards BP, move tutors with tons of move options, the photo club, expanded pokedex, more wild Pokémon variety, the battle agency (which is like the battle factory from emerald) ultra warp riding which let's you ride your legendary through ultra space and enter wormholes where you can find ultra beasts and all legendary Pokémon from past games. It can also be used as a new way of hunting shiny pokemon. Wild pokemon calling for help has been changed so they will only call for help once, unless you use an adrenaline orb, in which case it functions the same way. Story changes, a post game episode that works similar to the delta episode from omega ruby and alpha sapphire. 3 new ultra beasts have been added, new island scan pokemon, new hairstyles, more clothes, the ability to get totem sized pokemon of your own, and tons of added side story quests that weren't available in the original. I can't go into any other differences without any spoilers

[Kikki]

That's very helpful, Fishie, thank you