Backlog 2023

[Mikodesu]

Outer Wilds again.

MOSTLY I just wanna document something for the future. I have a bad feeling I know what the DLC's 'big scare' is going to be. And I don't like it. I found something that got me a comment out of an NPC...

Spoiler:

If you don't know anything about quantum mechanics, it's a very weird branch of physics... all advanced physics fields are kind of « Snuggly Bunny ». What you know as physics (Newtonian physics - equal and opposite force and all that) stops applying. In the game's case, 'quantum objects' are based on the concept of being 'everywhere and nowhere at once'.

There are objects in the game that move semi-randomly around sections of the map when you're not looking at them. The only thing that stops them from moving is looking at them.

So the NPC says something about wanting to make 'quantum art'. Which would be something that appears out of nowhere, comes up from behind you and scares the « Cow Poopoo » out of you. I swear to « Harvest Goddess » if that's it I'm gonna be a little mad...

It also lines up with what I've heard about the scare. And how the 'makes the scare a little easier to deal with' setting wouldn't really help. If that's how it is...it's probably a 'the asshat is behind you' warning.

Sigh.

Boy I hope that doesn't ruin the DLC for me.

The rest of my hour was spent running around filling out my ship's log. Didn't properly explore the starting planet, or its moon. And then I went to a comet! The devs definitely fixed autopilot in the time since release... From what I remember/have seen it used to be AWFUL. And now it's damn near perfect. I've only been flung into the sun once. :D lol

[Bluie]

Hrm, I'm torn on if I want to do the new Fire Emblem DLC right away. Thanks to the people who binged it as soon as it dropped last night, they confirmed you can't use any of the newly given characters until you complete the DLC in each file that you're playing on. In Three Houses, you just had to play the DLC once and the new characters were available in any of your save files. As I don't really want to go back to my female Alear file just to get DLC units for no content to play them on, I'll probably just wait until I do my male Alear playthrough where I planned to do all DLC content.

Depending how long it takes to finish Xenobalde 3 I may do that second playthrough afterwards because Tears of the Kingdom is still aways off.

[Daikon boy]

@kikki

I would be playing Azure too right now, if I was actually allowed to get my copy. I was excited for the game to release. At this point I'm not really excited anymore. I probably will be if I can actually get my copy.


I've been playing Ace attorney spirit of justice, I think? I always get the names a little confused. I'm on the final case though. I've been playing a few different games on my switch. I was playing harvestella at one point and got to the next chapter/dungeon

Spoiler:

after the castle of illusion, I think.

But I'm just playing other stuff instead now. I don't really feel motivated to play harvestella right now. I would if I started up because I do really like that game, but I'm just sticking to the other stuff for now, and then I'll pick harvestella back up within a month or two probably. I'll have the MegaMan battle network games in a few days though at least. So I also don't want to get really into harvestella again right before it releases since I don't have enough time to finish it.

[Kikki]

The day before yesterday, I decided to go into BotW, with very small intentions. (Summary of long spoiler content...started small, but ended up doing quite a bit, being unsatisfied, and then going to XCX to get more of what I really want from a big, open world. Wish I could combine the best aspects of BotW and XCX into one game, but if I did, I'd probably stop having even a hint of a life and ONLY play that game, ever.)

Spoiler:

I just wanted to go see the Zonai Ruins in the Faron region, to see why anyone ever made a big deal of the name in the first place. Well, I didn't find a reason! Doesn't look special to me, it's just an unknown name. I guess that's enough for lore-hunters to get really, reeeeeeeeally, potentially-need-to-change-your-undies level of excited. Doesn't do anything for me, though. Mind you, I do find it intriguing that they were known as a 'warlike tribe' (it seems to be considered a fact that the Zonai created the labyrinths and thus the Barbarian armor, so I'll just assume there's some reason I don't know for that, hopefully more than the shape of some unintelligible squiggles), considering what else we've seen that's also being linked to the Zonai, which I feel doesn't match with being primarily 'warlike'.

I only meant to look at the ruins and see if they were anything special. I didn't even remember them from playing before, except very vaguely. (I actually thought it might be the area around the Lakeside Stable, which it's...not. I think.) HOWEVER...I ended up playing a few hours the first day, and some more the next day, too. I finished about 8 more shrines (including all of the triforce/goddess shrines), found about 10 koroks, completed 3 quests, and de-corrupted Naydra.

BotW's exploration is sneakily alluring. It just...tells you to look. Look, there's a sparkle over there. What is it? Oh, some peppers. But isn't that a buried mossy chest there? What was in that Whoever's Hollow again? My Hero's Path shows that I never went there in this playthrough (this playthrough only has one divine beast in it...I overwrote all my save files months ago with a new playthrough on the same Switch profile.) So yeah, I ended up playing a bit.

But then I got bored because I know the whole story and all journal contents and have done most side-quests (except any that involve fast reflexes) and completed the story with the true ending and everything else.

...

So I went into another game that I've put even MORE hours into, already. Xenoblade Chronicles X. That game never dies. Even after it's over, the Blade board continually updates with more quests to do, even though you can't collect any more Blade points because you're already a top-tier member of Blade with every rank and privilege unlocked already. And there are always more collectibles to get...more biological, mechanical and archeological treasures to find. More character quests to do, that may be way too hard to complete without a bunch of post-game grinding.

Plus it's more beautiful than BotW (not fond of cell-shading, me, and I've always hated how MISTY everything is, making the view bland no matter where you go, and I don't like how I can never get a good look at Link's face...things are always moving and indistinct.) and the soundtrack is fantastic, and BotW, as far as I'm concerned, HAS no soundtrack. It has an occasional tinkle. It has sound-effects but no music. I always see 'calming Breath of the Wild soundtrack' on YouTube, but...what? BotW doesn't have any music! It has some disconnected, aimless piano chords that set a certain ambiance but really can't be considered music by my ears, anyway. XCX feels more alive than BotW, particularly post-game. WHen I finish BotW, it feels DONE. XCX doesn't. It's more like an MMO world. Always feels like there might be something else going on if you just look around.

Was playing that until nearly 11PM last night, lol. Had a bunch of social quests to complete, which is always fun, before I'll consider heading on to Chapter 11.

Not sure when I can, though...the power went out around 2:30 AM and they're not predicting it'll be back on until 4PM. They may get it on earlier, or it may be much later. We got a LOT of freezing rain (though nowhere near 1998 ice storm levels! HALF of what we got at the outskirts of that storm...I happen to live on the outskirts of the ice storm region, so I remember it very well.) so power is out in broad strokes across Ontario and probably Quebec and maybe New York or Vermont as well? We're on Hydro Ontario, so it only shows outages in Ontario...not sure what it looks like in the other spots right now. It's not a day to leave the house...though it'll be fine once we've had plus temperatures for a few hours, later on. But we don't know even what stores have power and which don't, so no way of knowing what's open unless you call each place, first.

Using a lot of draining laptop juice to post this, but this may be my only fun for the day, lol. Not stable enough to do anything very physical after assembling those shelves yesterday. I probably should have done just one set.

Power's back on now, after just 8.5 hours without. My seedlings are all safe, though they're already big enough to fend for themselves to some extent! Now I can go back to XCX if I want, but...now that we have power, I dn't actually have to. I have other things I can get to, lol. That's the thing about power outages...they're when you want a game to play because you can't do anything else, but you can't play them because you don't have power. But when you have power back, there's other things that probably take priority! It's kind of like being too sick to do anything but lounge. Time to play! But not if you're so sick or tired you can't even do that. -___-

I keep jumping from game to game, playing good chunks of them, then getting bored and hankering after something else (fortunately so far only things I already own!) Well, no harm done. It IS just a hobby, after all, and it's better to keep replaying than waste money on new games I turn out not to be all that interested in. Whatever's fun enough to choose over more sleep is the right game to be playing in the moment. (Since I probably don't actually NEED more sleep...I can get indefinite sleep and just about never feel rested.)

[yzafre]

Heyyyy. SAD ate by brain during February, and I spent most of March carefully managing my energy to put myself back together. During that time, I slowly picked my way through a re-play of KH1. The kind of mind-numbing, grindy gameplay in KH1's side-content was really nice for the brain-state I was in, though as I began to get better I very quickly lost patience with it.

I'm doing better, now! Finally have the energy and enthusiasm to try new things. I got the money for a steam-deck, too, which is excellent timing; it came in this week.

I originally planned to play Elden Ring first when I got a steam deck, but given TotK is in a month, I'm hesitant to start a giant open world game. Instead, I opened up Going Under, which I've had for a while. I hadn't played it until now, because the controller I had for the PC was having a lot of connection issues. Honestly, getting the deck itself opened up a lot of PC options I've been avoiding due to the controller issue.

Outer Wilds is incredibly special, but it's so weird and different that it's kind of hard to come to grips with. Even with all the effort the devs put into helping facilitate that. I think I waited long enough to play it though because I only remember bits and pieces of everything.

Ohhh, I'd forgotten about that game! It's been on my list for a while, but I think I was waiting for the switch port.... which still doesn't have a release date. Hm. Might be time to give up on that version and just get it on pc.

[Mikodesu]

I just wanted to go see the Zonai Ruins in the Faron region, to see why anyone ever made a big deal of the name in the first place. Well, I didn't find a reason! Doesn't look special to me, it's just an unknown name. I guess that's enough for lore-hunters to get really, reeeeeeeeally, potentially-need-to-change-your-undies level of excited.

Good to know Zelda lore fanatics are still at it. I used to get into discussions with people about the timeline before Hyrule Historia came out. I've dropped out of that scene since "Goddess Hylia" has over-homogenized things, but it was fun while it lasted.

Have you tried getting into Xeno series lore content at all? I'm SURE there must be some dedicated theorists out there, with how complex everything gets between multiple games and universes and all that. Though imo the more convoluted the more fun it is. It's why I find the Souls series (Dark Souls, etc) lore theories so fun. It's like an archeological excavation. And good for a burst of creativity, at that.

Ohhh, I'd forgotten about that game! It's been on my list for a while, but I think I was waiting for the switch port.... which still doesn't have a release date. Hm. Might be time to give up on that version and just get it on pc.

I had no idea the Outer Wilds Switch port was still in limbo! That's unfortunate. :/ I wonder who's doing the port... At this point it's like there's no excuse for indie games... if Witcher 3 can run on a potato anything can. I would BET that it runs well on Steam Deck, though, and at least if it's approved you'll have the 2 hour return window.

Very fun so far. I'm not sure how much you've been spoiled on, but it's probably worth the price of admission even if you don't end up finishing the game. Such a unique world and chock full of lore and environmental storytelling.

My ONLY real complaint so far... if you don't know the main mechanic/thing the game revolves around and don't want to know yet, spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

The time loop CAN get a bit frustrating at times, if you're trying to get somewhere that takes a bit of time and mess something up (especially more than once), since there's no way to save in the middle of a loop. So far it hasn't been TOO bad though--everything is pretty bite sized and the challenges are spread out. Honestly Outer Wilds might make the perfect handheld game just for that.

[Kikki]

I just wanted to go see the Zonai Ruins in the Faron region, to see why anyone ever made a big deal of the name in the first place. Well, I didn't find a reason! Doesn't look special to me, it's just an unknown name. I guess that's enough for lore-hunters to get really, reeeeeeeeally, potentially-need-to-change-your-undies level of excited.

Have you tried getting into Xeno series lore content at all? I'm SURE there must be some dedicated theorists out there, with how complex everything gets between multiple games and universes and all that. Though imo the more convoluted the more fun it is. It's why I find the Souls series (Dark Souls, etc) lore theories so fun. It's like an archeological excavation. And good for a burst of creativity, at that.

This question is strangely difficult to answer. The short answer is "Kind of." But I wouldn't be me if I didn't elaborate!

Spoiler:

I feel like has to be defined, exactly what 'lore' is, and also, to show where I'm standing, so that my viewpoint can be understood, even though it's a bit odd among fans of my type. That type being the one that follows news on the internet, as well as a decent amount of fan chatter as well, as opposed to the type who simply play and enjoy the games and leave it at that, without going around looking for more. For the sake of easy categorization, we can call these types the insane fans versus the normal fans. I definitely lean a little more into insanity than normality when it comes to my favourite games/characters. I'm none too casual about them, though hopefully I've never gone right off the edge on any of it.

What I'm interested in are characters. Now, separating character from story is like separating the proverbial dancer from the dance, imo. I'm very interested in Link. I'm not all that interested in Hyrule. I'm somewhat interested in the Triforce and the bearer of each part, as it is a driving, continually present force in creating Link. So I'm a little interested in the goddesses, as well.

What I'm not interested in is timelines, or the culture of the Zora or the Sheikah or etc. I don't care which game came first and I don't believe that Nintendo does, either. I think they tossed out the Hyrule Historia as a sop to appease 'Western' fans, and that it's ret-conned out the wazoo. (I have a very strong dislike of anything that's been ret-conned, as to me it shows that the author/creator failed to plan ahead and had to cobble things together messily afterward. Though in this case I feel it's because they don't actually care about a timeline so it's not that they failed to plan things properly, it's just that they never saw a reason to bother.)

I did really like the bonus story about the very first Link and Zelda, and how Skyloft ended up in the sky, etc, as to me that created the basis of Link's soul. I don't profess to be 'correct', but my preferred interpretation of Link is that he is a specific soul that is being reborn every time he is needed, rather than that he is a different person each time that has simply been granted the Triforce of Courage when a champion was required. I believe his personality shifts with the circumstances of his different life, but only within the range of what is possible for that soul.

To me, lore is information about the world. It's information that may brush up against the main character(s), but mostly doesn't directly impact their personal lives. And I don't care about anything that doesn't inform how the character became who he/she is or what actions they must take (whether because they want to, or because they have to). I don't care who the Zonai were. Sure, Link gets some cute armour from them having existed at some point, but so what? I haven't been given any reason to care about the Zonai, so far. I still don't even care about the Sheikah, lol. Or the Zora or the Gorons. Occasionally a character I like happens to be one of those races, but I'm not interested in the history of their country, politics, culture, etc. Just in that one character specifically.

Now if they tell me that LINK is Zonai, I will promptly care about them very much! (Just want to be clear...that's not a theory I am presenting, lol.) At least, I will care to know if it explains this or that about him. But I won't care about them for their own sake, only for Link's.

Does that make any sense?

So! When it comes to Xenoblade...I actually know a fair bit about that world's lore. I even know a little about Xenogears, though only a bit. I know about the Zohar/Conduit and so on. (I also know a little about real-world connections.) Those are things I needed to know, though, as they're central to what Shulk has to go through, and even more so to whatever the heck is up with Alvis and the aegises. (I don't know the proper pluralization for aegis, lol.) Xenoblade doesn't actually bog things down with all that much lore, imo.

Not like Trails! I love that series; the writing is fantastic and the story has so much punch when the threads all start to come together, but oh my goodness, if I never hear about the Noble Alliance, the RMP, the ILF, Ouroboros, the Reformists, the witches, the Septian church, the Gnomes, the etcetcetcetc...well, I'd be happy to stop hearing about them, is what I want to say. I don't care about them or what they want to do! Yes, they're important to the story, though all in little bits that just annoy me and make things less impactful by creating way too many threads. Like knitting a sweater out of every colour in existence...it just turns into a hideous mess. I also don't enjoy how much it reminds me of real life politics and religions and how there are so many sides to every bloody thing that it's just exhausting to be alive if you try to think about it all.

Anyway, I don't know if that came out too messy to get through, but that's what I am and am not interested in when it comes to lore.

[Mikodesu]

I just wanted to go see the Zonai Ruins in the Faron region, to see why anyone ever made a big deal of the name in the first place. Well, I didn't find a reason! Doesn't look special to me, it's just an unknown name. I guess that's enough for lore-hunters to get really, reeeeeeeeally, potentially-need-to-change-your-undies level of excited.

Have you tried getting into Xeno series lore content at all? I'm SURE there must be some dedicated theorists out there, with how complex everything gets between multiple games and universes and all that. Though imo the more convoluted the more fun it is. It's why I find the Souls series (Dark Souls, etc) lore theories so fun. It's like an archeological excavation. And good for a burst of creativity, at that.

Snip

I think we're on the same page as far as the definition of lore. It's a lot of why I miss the older games. Majora and Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had far more interesting worlds to dive into. I also preferred it when the cultures of the world were tied to different goddesses. It gave a different flavor to how they were written. Twilight Princess in particular did well adding layers to what was already there, with the regional spirits and everything that's going on in the desert at that point in the timeline (there was a lot of debate back in the day about that and what implications it had to the timeline as a whole).

Gets a bit long beyond this so I'll spoiler tag it.

Spoiler:

Since then it's felt very stripped down. I would have loved to see Hylia integrated in a more thoughtful way. Like if Hylia's memory had somehow been erased by Ganon/his followers, monuments defaced/changed, THAT would have been more interesting to me. And it would make sense, as revenge for her success suppressing Demise. Zelda in BotW uncovering archaeological evidence of this goddess and how they're related would have been awesome. That knowledge could have been what unlocked her powers, even! Adding layers to the lore and her character.

The Zonai stuff I paid no attention to because there's nothing really to go on. Nothing concrete anyway. (By contrast, if that armor set was in Dark Souls it would have a lore description attached to it that you could at least compare to the ruins to draw some conclusions. I would love it if Zelda games would go to those lengths. In Souls games every item has a lore description, whether it's a consumable, used in crafting, or a weapon or piece or armor.)

I also agree with you on Link's origins (it's a theory that was come up with a loong time ago and it makes sense to me). It's also why I'm not a fan of "Zelink". If Link is reincarnated, that's like getting with the amnesiac ghost of your great grandpa. I find thinking about how the same soul comes out different based on that lifetime's experiences more interesting than pairing him off with the same girl anyway. (And I'm satisfied with the romance in Skyward Sword. Done and dusted.)


For the Xeno series, to my limited understanding of it (having only watched one playthrough) Xenosaga is by far the most lore intensive in the series. Gears might have been if Takahashi had gotten to do what he wanted with the series, but. That's a lost cause at this point. Beyond that there's still all of the religious imagery to pick at. Takahashi has a bit of a thing for Judeochristian mythos. That too is probably deepest in Saga though. The Blade series has the most in the way of fantasy race cultures, at least. I give them a lot of credit for not just going, elves/dwarves or their analogs.

Especially if you like lots of complex/overlapping political systems the Trails series sounds great for lore. The time commitment to get through the series is the main thing that's kept me from touching them, but they're still on my Steam wishlist! I genuinely like that kind of storytelling. It's a lot of what I love about space operas.

[Kikki]

Post is so darned huge, I cut the entire thing. Within is talk about LoZ, Xeno, and Trails, as before.

Spoiler:

I think we're on the same page as far as the definition of lore.

We tend to not agree on most things, lol. It's pretty interesting to have someone you almost always disagree with, though. At least agreeing on what lore IS makes it easier to discuss how we value it. I only like lore as background flavour and otherwise it's mostly an annoying distraction, to me, from the characters. All I care about is the characters. I'm only interested in personal stories, not in societies or races, politics, factions, religion, blahdeblah.

Just about everything I said isn't an opinion or even a theory, as I'm not intending to present them as any kind of truth...it's all just a long explanation of what I like. I mean, if someone tells me that Link is a new person in every game, a newly chosen bearer of the Triforce of Courage, I'm gonna shrug and nod and leave it at that, because sure, that's as likely as anything. I don't know that Nintendo cares which he is, so we can make up our own minds! I don't like it, though, so I choose to believe that Link is always the same person, just reborn into a new life to again be the hand that holds the Master Sword. I LIKE him more that way. I feel like he's a friend, that way, the minute I see him in the game.

If I think of him as the guy I've been alongside many times before, then the instant the game starts and I have him under my control, I think, Here we are again, little buddy. Let's get you through this! If I try to think about it the other way, he becomes a stranger I'm not interested in and have to be convinced all over again to like. (I don't like all Links. But if I think of him as the same person, reborn, then suddenly even if this or that about him annoys me in one game or another, I can just overlook it, because he's still Link.)

I would have loved to see Hylia integrated in a more thoughtful way.

We kind of agree here, too. Sort of. I don't care much about Hylia for her own sake, as they've never drawn my attention to her and shown me that she's interesting. But I do wish they'd incorporated a LOT of things more thoughtfully. By that, I mean character, since that's what I care about. Why is Zelda so underdeveloped? And Ganon? He's just a villain and nothing else. BotW gave us quite a bit of character for Zelda, but they didn't give it in any useful way.

The entire series is about the actions of Courage. Why do we never see the actions of Wisdom, a trait that is arguably even rarer and more precious than courage? Nintendo doesn't want Zelda to be the hero...okay? I guess. Though genuine wisdom is pretty amazing! But Zelda doesn't have to impinge on Link's territory! Link can be the sword-swinger and the life-risker, no problem. But why can't the game let us see Zelda actively being wise? Why can't we have segments where we play as Zelda, looking at a problem in front of her, and seeing the process of figuring out how to solve it. (I can think of ways that that could be turned into gameplay, even without it being a traditional puzzle to solve.) I'd like to see us literally see Zelda's thoughts in little slices, and arrange them in order to effect a solution to this or that. Well...it's very hard to describe what I mean with that one. Showcase Zelda's brains, Nintendo! Link's the body (or perhaps the heart)...Zelda should be the brain.

Not sure what Ganon is. They've never given him much character beyond 'evil' and 'power-hungry'. Slightly greenish? Piggy? Not a lot to go on, with Ganon. Why is he so power-hungry? I get that it's probably the concept of absolute power corrupting absolutely, but...it shouldn't erase your personality. Does Ganon like sweets? Does he prefer the indoors or the outdoors? Does he feel anything about being Gerudo? What exactly does he want to do with his power, just 'rule'? Why does he want to rule? Because the Triforce of Power fills his brain with it so entirely that he can't think of anything else? Does he hate Link and find him nothing more than an irritating fly to squash, or does he find him an interesting challenge to defeat and thus kind of like him? What about Zelda? Why don't we know ANY of this?

For the Xeno series, to my limited understanding of it (having only watched one playthrough) Xenosaga is by far the most lore intensive in the series. Gears might have been if Takahashi had gotten to do what he wanted with the series, but. That's a lost cause at this point. Beyond that there's still all of the religious imagery to pick at. Takahashi has a bit of a thing for Judeochristian mythos. That too is probably deepest in Saga though.

Once we get into religion in games, I get the wiggins. Reading up on the basis of the Xeno world made me uncomfortable, lol. I wanted to understand about the Monado and the Conduit and why things were happening, so I did some research, but once I more or less understood what it was within the game, I left it at that and didn't look any further. I do have my own little stories about how things work within that game world, based on bits of lore, but I think everybody does to some extent. It's how you make the game world fit in your thoughts, that's all. I really just care about how my favourite characters can become happy. For me, lore tends to just get in the way of clarity.

Especially if you like lots of complex/overlapping political systems the Trails series sounds great for lore. The time commitment to get through the series is the main thing that's kept me from touching them, but they're still on my Steam wishlist! I genuinely like that kind of storytelling. It's a lot of what I love about space operas.

Trails may be the great grandmaster of lore. I HIGHLY recommend it if lots of layered lore, with many slowly-revealed connections all over the place coming out as the story progresses, is what floats your boat. You have to have a good memory, though. There's so freaking much of it. A casual line of dialogue by an NPC. An inscription on a gravestone or statue. The remains of a dungeon. A newspaper article. A class lecture on Dreichels the Lionheart. The seemingly innocent novels you collect. Each thing tends to be small enough that it just floats there as a speck of lint, to me. They all come together into an entire world, though, and hundreds or even thousands of years of history...just not right away. You have to be very patient if you want to get a clear picture of the history and how it's created the current state of Zemuria. There are SO MANY FACTIONS, too, in the current day. You can cut it down, but even then it's very detailed, because you've got your magic faction, your politicals, your royals (not the same as the nobility, not in Trails!) your entrenched nobility, the technos, the magic technos, the rebels, the terrorists, the jaegers...GAH. And it's still building.

Meanwhile, I just want to know if that poor kid Rean is ever going to be happy, with [REDACTED!] Poor thing; I don't think it can ever be fun, to be the embodiment of heroism in war.

If you want to get into it, I'd suggest only looking at ONE GAME. Just...play Trails in the Sky FC. Don't think about anything else. If when you finish it, you want more, then you can think about what's next. If you like lore, then I don't recommend doing what I did, which was to start the series with Cold Steel. You SHOULD start with whatever you want to like most, as Trails does reuse tropes, so whatever you play first will feel freshest and most original. But lore-wise, the only thing that makes sense it to start with Sky.

Never try to think about the entire series at once, lol. One can only give up in exhaustion if they do that! Especially since with Cold Steel completed, the series is only about half done, and the bombs are dropping faster and faster as the games progress.

[Mikodesu]

Long again, so it's probably better off in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

Just about everything I said isn't an opinion or even a theory, as I'm not intending to present them as any kind of truth...it's all just a long explanation of what I like. I mean, if someone tells me that Link is a new person in every game, a newly chosen bearer of the Triforce of Courage, I'm gonna shrug and nod and leave it at that, because sure, that's as likely as anything. I don't know that Nintendo cares which he is, so we can make up our own minds! I don't like it, though, so I choose to believe that Link is always the same person, just reborn into a new life to again be the hand that holds the Master Sword. I LIKE him more that way. I feel like he's a friend, that way, the minute I see him in the game.

I was thinking about it last night and I think I'm wrong, I think it's canon. In more than one game they've referred to the "Links" as having "the soul of 'the hero'". Always "the hero", specifically, which is where the reincarnation theory comes from. (It could be a translation issue, though. BotW is not the only game Nintendo NA has screwed up.) I THINK Zelda's power has been mentioned as blood related in older games but now it's just "the blood of the goddess", so we have full confirmation there.

Either way I don't think anybody outside of Nintendo HQ (maybe outside Miyamoto himself) thinks of Link as nothing more than a 'link to the player'.

The entire series is about the actions of Courage. Why do we never see the actions of Wisdom, a trait that is arguably even rarer and more precious than courage? Nintendo doesn't want Zelda to be the hero...okay? I guess. Though genuine wisdom is pretty amazing! But Zelda doesn't have to impinge on Link's territory! Link can be the sword-swinger and the life-risker, no problem. But why can't the game let us see Zelda actively being wise? Why can't we have segments where we play as Zelda, looking at a problem in front of her, and seeing the process of figuring out how to solve it. (I can think of ways that that could be turned into gameplay, even without it being a traditional puzzle to solve.) I'd like to see us literally see Zelda's thoughts in little slices, and arrange them in order to effect a solution to this or that. Well...it's very hard to describe what I mean with that one. Showcase Zelda's brains, Nintendo! Link's the body (or perhaps the heart)...Zelda should be the brain.

My whole idea was spawned from Matthewmatosis' BotW review. Nobody else I've seen has brought up/leaned on the idea of Zelda's power being nurtured/developed by her intellectual curiosity in BotW. Which is true, Nintendo just dropped the ball there. I think that's what I dislike most about her in that game, she's a bundle of lost potential. They could have cut half the memory scenes with Zelda imo (because they do nothing for her) and filled them with world building scenes of Link following HER around while she's doing her thing, whether or not she chooses to include him. (Iirc the only memory she has where she's actively pursuing her interests is the one where she's at a Shiekah ruin and gets mad because Link shows up. Which isn't great since all it focuses on is her being mad. (。_。) ) Nintendo needs new writers. Or to let their writers work. Maybe both. They have good ideas but the follow through is just « Puppy Doodoo ».


As for Ganon, your issues with him are why fans are so chuffed with him in Wind Waker. It's simple, but it's the only instance where his lust for power has MEANING. Beyond that it's all been written like Demise. "Power? Me want power. Power good. Ug." (There have been a couple good fan comics writing about Ganondorf over the years, too but that's more for the big Ganondorf lovers.) Which probably goes back to my earlier point about writers.


Aw, that's a shame religious lore is uncomfortable for you, Kikki. I'm glad there's still a lot to enjoy for you in the Xeno games. Hopefully you don't mind the church leader big bads too much, since I doubt they're going away any time soon. :/

As for Trails, I tend to limit myself to one RPG a year because they're so time consuming, so maybe this year will be Trails in the Sky. I'll look into it for now. Carefully constructed worlds and layered reveals are my favorites, so long as it's all paced well.

[yzafre]

Ahhh, I don't think Outer Wild's gimmick will bother me too much, Miko. Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game, so I'm used to working around that kind of thing.


I'd like to jump in on the BotW part of this discussion, if you don't mind.

Spoiler:

Nobody else I've seen has brought up/leaned on the idea of Zelda's power being nurtured/developed by her intellectual curiosity in BotW. Which is true, Nintendo just dropped the ball there. I think that's what I dislike most about her in that game, she's a bundle of lost potential.

I think that's... actually the point the story is making? Ah, how to explain this... I've seen a lot of videos talking about the theme of "mono no aware", in BotW, but I've not seen much about the theme that I picked up on, which is, ehhhh... let's call it "the futility of trying to manufacture fate".

This is the first time the inhabitants of Hyrule really acknowledge the history/legends in a more... meta kind of way. They're trying to reproduce the story, but they don't have the whole picture, and they misunderstand what bits they do have. They need a guy with a sword, a princess with sacred power, and maybe a robot army. And they focus on that to the exclusion of all else.

The slimming down to Hylia actually hurts them here, too! Because without Din/Nayru/Farore, and the understanding of the triforce's aspects, they do not understand the roles Link and Zelda are really supposed to fulfill, with Wisdom and courage. Which is hilarious, since they know the Power/Wisdom/Courage shrines exist! They just... don't seem to get their significance.

Zelda was trying to develop her curiosity, investigate the guardians, to do what she's supposed to do as Wisdom - but her Father wouldn't let her! He very explicitly forbade her from doing what Wisdom is supposed to do, instead forcing her to focus on this one specific aspect of the legends. And, you know, she's not Courage, to defy her father. And the Courage that is with her has been so tamed and conditioned and squashed down, he can't break her out either. So she stops.

Which, given that the guardians being taken over is the factor that doomed them in the end, this interference directly contributed to Hyrule's demise.

Now, you could say this wasn't the best place to take the character, that you wish they'd do something difference. Honestly, I do agree there were a couple memories that were just re-iterating an already made point, and a different scene could have made this theme clearer. But I think overall, Zelda not being able to fulfill her aspect because of Hyrule's micro-management is the point they were trying to make. A sort of irony when she goes "I do everything they tell me and I still can't unlock the power!" because, yes, what they're telling you to do is wrong.

Anyhow. Going Under is going well. Just when I thought I was at the end it revealed a second half of the game, which is much more difficult. Time to dive back in, I guess.

[Mikodesu]

Zelda was trying to develop her curiosity, investigate the guardians, to do what she's supposed to do as Wisdom - but her Father wouldn't let her! He very explicitly forbade her from doing what Wisdom is supposed to do, instead forcing her to focus on this one specific aspect of the legends. And, you know, she's not Courage, to defy her father. And the Courage that is with her has been so tamed and conditioned and squashed down, he can't break her out either. So she stops.

Might not have been very clear on my thoughts here so I'll try to put it better.

Don't worry, I'm aware the conceit of the story is Zelda not being allowed to pursue her interests (that's the focus of the memory collectathon, and it's mentioned in the review I brought up). My point is that disallowance applies to when she's in the castle. And only in the castle. Her father is the only person in her life preventing her from pursuing her interests. Don't get me wrong, he has a lot of control over her life, but again only while she's in the castle. And we know she does pursue her interests to some extent in spite of her father (there's the one scene of her getting mad at Link at the Shiekah ruin, and the implication of her visiting other ruins in the flashback with Urbosa). I just want to SEE it. There's so much opportunity for Zelda to take advantage of the freedom she's been given (probably for the first time in her life) and as far as the player is aware, she hardly does. What we see of her shapes our view of her.

And my view of her is daddy issues the princess. (Excusing the term, it's just...apt in this case.) That is my problem with the character writing. I can't stand character writing centered around personal trauma. I can relate (deeply) to trauma, and traumatized characters, I just don't enjoy when they ARE their trauma. Beyond a certain point we're not learning anything new. There's value in some fluff scenes that don't develop character or plot, there's just far too many of them in BotW.

The review I mentioned even makes the point that by having voice acted content in the game, there was the opportunity to have Zelda comment on ruins Link finds as he finds them throughout the game. I would have enjoyed that too.

In the case of BotW Zelda, the good ideas are implicit, and what's explicit is largely repetitive or outright bad (imo). The major argument in favor of it is that it's all filler. You don't HAVE to seek the memories out, and all you get is a 20 second extra scene with a couple of lines of dialogue for it. My argument against that is I didn't know that going in. (All I had was Aonuma saying 'there's a secret ending, go get it killer'.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[yzafre]

My point is that disallowance applies to when she's in the castle. And only in the castle. Her father is the only person in her life preventing her from pursuing her interests. Don't get me wrong, he has a lot of control over her life, but again only while she's in the castle. And we know she does pursue her interests to some extent in spite of her father (there's the one scene of her getting mad at Link at the Shiekah ruin, and the implication of her visiting other ruins in the flashback with Urbosa). I just want to SEE it. There's so much opportunity for Zelda to take advantage of the freedom she's been given (probably for the first time in her life) and as far as the player is aware, she hardly does. What we see of her shapes our view of her.

Ahhhh, okay, okay. That's fair! I think my initial understanding of your first post was "the story should actually have been about her (successfully) learning about the shiekah tech". If instead it's more along the lines of "give me less scenes of her talking about how sad she is, more scenes of her trying to learn but maybe being blocked from various directions" then I agree with you. I think we also have different interpretations of how much freedom she has outside the castle, but given how little we have to work with in-game, that's not a surprise.

The point I was trying (poorly) to make was not that the memory scenes were particularly well executed (you're right that they're far too one-note), more a comparison on what the story was trying to do vs what (I thought) you were saying it should have been instead. They had a good concept! Some good initial ideas. Wish we could have seen more development on them. But, as you say... what they gave us gets repetitive. (Also yes that ending + bonus scene were. Disappointing, to say the least.)

[Mikodesu]

Ahhhh, okay, okay. That's fair! I think my initial understanding of your first post was "the story should actually have been about her (successfully) learning about the shiekah tech". If instead it's more along the lines of "give me less scenes of her talking about how sad she is, more scenes of her trying to learn but maybe being blocked from various directions" then I agree with you. I think we also have different interpretations of how much freedom she has outside the castle, but given how little we have to work with in-game, that's not a surprise.

The point I was trying (poorly) to make was not that the memory scenes were particularly well executed (you're right that they're far too one-note), more a comparison on what the story was trying to do vs what (I thought) you were saying it should have been instead. They had a good concept! Some good initial ideas. Wish we could have seen more development on them. But, as you say... what they gave us gets repetitive. (Also yes that ending + bonus scene were. Disappointing, to say the least.)

Ohhh, okay. I'm sorry about that! I wasn't sure if you were directly interpreting what was going on in BotW or suggesting a way to improve it, and I made a dumb assumption.

Actually whether it's a story that focuses more properly on Zelda's wisdom or one that explores Zelda being the courageous one, both sound really interesting! My interpretation of Triforce lore is that the pieces individually manifest in the person who best embodies that aspect of the triforce, so who's to say Zelda COULDN'T be more courageous than Link? Let's actually focus on her courage instead. I doubt Nintendo would ever go there, but that would be interesting, Farore favoring Zelda over Link for a cycle. (My first thought was if there was some possibility that the triforce could 'waver' between two people, but it could also be a way to introduce a playable Zelda?)

And yeah...I wonder if Aonuma was forced to promote that little "you got all the memories" scene as a "secret ending". It made me mad at the time, but it sounds like something corporate would do. And we did have the board member, never made a video game guy running the company at the time. Who knows.

Edit: Also yeah, I was saying give me less scenes of Zelda talking about how sad she is, and more scenes of her doing something about how sad she is. My favorite interpretations of the character are more active characters, characters who have a hand in progressing the plot (Spirit Zelda is my favorite, Tetra and Sheik are runners up because they're not actually 'Princess Zelda'. Spirit Tracks has a completely different tone, but that Zelda is dynamic and adorable. I love it.)

Edit edit: Back on track in Outer Wilds! Made a couple of scary jumps, failed a particular scary jump a couple of times and had to restart and go back to my spot to try again. Finally made it, and unclenched. There's so many details in this game, if you keep a careful eye out for them. Lots of little stuff that nobody screams at you.

Spoiler:

On Brittle Hollow in one of the settlements there's a 'schoolhouse' area, and the Nomai writing there is big and has the texture of chalk, which is nowhere else in the game. You can tell from the style/content of their writing that it's kids. Which is just very cute.

I think I've died enough that I'm gonna brave Dark Bramble tomorrow. The more I think on it it's not all that scary, or even worse than the rest of the game. The unknown is probably the worst bit. And I've died a bunch out of nowhere already, so what's the difference? Die, try again.

[Bluie]

I've not made a lot of progress in Xenoblade 3. I got to where it really opens up in chapter 3 and I am distracted by the Hero Quests. I honestly didn't know these were a thing. I was expecting it to be more like Xenoblade 1 where your party is a set cast, which is fine, but I really enjoyed the massive cast of 2 and the fun customization that came from it. Well, here we are again with not only being able to change classes with the set party, but drag other characters along with you too AND steal their class too! Alright, Xenoblade 3, you got me, I think we'll get along just fine lol. So, I did Zeon's whole quest and now I'm working on Teach's. Easter everything at work has left me exhausted so I haven't done much else besides that. I fell asleep with the controller in my hands last night lol...