Is it my impression or are most Farming Life Sim Games Shovelware?

[Kikki]

SoS definitely isn't stagnating, imo. It's the opposite. It's entirely lost its way and has been cut adrift in space...it feels like it has no idea where it's going.

The team is almost entirely new and they have NO idea what the soul of the series is. They're trying to grab onto what they THINK is what made this successful or that successful, and they're getting it wrong. Well, hopefully they managed to actually listen to the fans with the new game, but it SOUNDS, from them saying they heard the feedback and they're concentrating on the graphics, that they still don't understand at all. Because of that I'm not very hopeful that the next SoS will feel any homier than PoOT did, but I hope they surprise me.

So to me it's more that they're trying to change everything than that they're stagnating. How can they stagnate when almost no one on the team is the same as it was even for Trio, let alone games older than that? PoOT was really different from Trio. (In a bad way, imo.)

[Bluie]

With SoS, I'm all for new entries if they can figure their « Cow Poopoo » out, but I'm definitely more on the remake side as there is a lot of games in the series that are a pain in the rear to play these days (either legally, or stably less legally). While the Mineral Town remake was basic, it still worked because of the tried and true formula that brought people to the genre. The AWL remake was much better and gives me hope that whatever is next is more refined and keeps the series alive regardless of whatever the new game does or doesn't do.

With other farming sims, Stardew did innovate, to the point of changing every farming sim after it, including SoS. The QoL Stardew brought to the genre is like a golden standard now and, afaik, nothing has really surpassed it. There's games that come close or are described as 'Stardew but with <insert theme here>', but not much else seems to be close to elevating itself to be on par or above SDV. Fields of Mistria SEEMS to be on its way to being a decent contender, but time will tell. I'm looking forward to it, but I refuse to be a beta tester.

[Terranigma Freak]

Stagnant to me means the franchise isn't growing and finding new fans. It's being overshadowed by a lot of newcomers. I definitely agree the series has lost its way. Like I said, the new Harvest Moon game is actually more interesting than the previous entry in SOS, and HM games have been pretty bad since the divorce.

I didn't know they were saying the next game needs better graphics. That's laughable. Stardew Valley's graphics are far from cutting edge. It's a gorgeous game, but it's not cutting edge.

Yes, Stardew did innovate. I'm saying now games are just trying to ape Stardew without bringing big changes. I know games are trying to stand out, and some of them have good ideas, but not enough to shakeup the genre.

[Kikki]

Stagnant to me means the franchise isn't growing and finding new fans. It's being overshadowed by a lot of newcomers. I definitely agree the series has lost its way. Like I said, the new Harvest Moon game is actually more interesting than the previous entry in SOS, and HM games have been pretty bad since the divorce.

Okay, that definitely wasn't how I was seeing the word stagnant; if that's how you mean it, I would say that's true. Though I DO think it has found new fans, but only about as many as it lost in this...let's say 'poot era'. PoOT had a really fun (but very shallow) gameplay loop. You couldn't CARE about it, ime, but it was like a mobile game...quite addictive for little bursts. It just had no depth, and thus, no heart.

Imo, of course.

Bokumono no longer has a particularly good or revered name, where it USED to be the cream of the (pardon me) crop. The gold standard. For long stretches, possibly the ONLY farming life sim.

As for Natsume's HM, it's always been really fun, actually. Even the first one, Lost Valley. The games were UGLY, and somewhat glitchy, and very lacking in the social department, but the farming was extremely fun. I daresay the farming was even more fun in the first game than it has become in Winds of Anthos (which I just finished a few days ago and still have LOADS left to do in post-game.) The terrain and altitude and water conditions and the fertilizers and the terraforming...it was fascinating farming. Skytree Village was the same over again, but smoother and a bit better-rounded, though still notably lacking in other ways, and still ugly.

But they were always really fun farming. I've liked them from the beginning. Anthos just looks way better, is all...and they're finally creating a little better of a world. It feels like a more memorable and homey place. The social events are still rather lacklustre, but I'm really in these games for the FARMING. (Probably few are as big a fan of the actual farming as I am. I live to raise bumps in the earth, throw out seeds, and darken the soil with sprinkling water, then alter crops with fertilizer. Not interested in the animals, tbh...I'm no rancher! I'm all about the PLANTS.)

~

I'm not really a fan of Stardew. It's a pretty good game, but I'll never count it among my favourites, as I have no feelings for any of the characters or the story. The thing I like best about Stardew is the world as a whole...it feels like a place with its own history and legends and secrets and that is very cool. And being open to modding made it pretty unique at the time, too, so it's now got HUGE amounts of user-created content. It's not like the farming was unique in Stardew, though. It's pretty standard, and at the core it was based on...wasn't it Friends of Mineral Town? I remember that it was a specific Bokumono game, but I'm not sure which one.

It's the way it grew that made it so unique. It became a game you could really make your own, visually and even in content. Plus Concerned Ape put in plenty of cool stuff from the beginning, 'canon' Stardew.

I do think there are tons of unique farming games out there right now, though. Recently, you could look at Echoes of the Plum Grove. Even Kynseed had a unique spin with the peculiar, slightly dark fantasy setting and the fairytale story and the turning generations that pass things down from generation to generation. (I don't even remember the farming in that one, though.) They all use similar mechanics, because really...how much can you innovate farming? Till earth, plant seeds, water, fertilize. What else is there? I sure don't want to deal with pest or disease control on my digital farm! You could mechanize it, or turn it into big business, but there are already series that do that.

Many games have their unique twist that makes the game feel different enough, though few of them are completely finished and polished (like Coral Island or SunnySide, where the devs seem to be struggling a bit to realize the vision they had of their game, particularly the latter. Coral Island is pretty good but I don't think it's 100% complete, yet.)

These are just games that are popping in off the top of my head. If I look at my Steam list, there's quite a few more, and they're all approaching the genre from slightly different angles. Very different, in some cases. I personally don't want them to try to completely reinvent farming itself, but I'm seeing plenty of variety that gives each game its own flavour. I don't really see a lack of innovation in this genre.

Plenty of bad games, sure, from people who were either just greedy, or simply lacked the ability to do better, but I also see loads of variety in looks and content of farming games.

[JustABeautifulGuy]

We're definitely drowning in a crazy amount of half baked farm sims. Every time I blink, a new farming sim is announced or has a Kickstarter campaign. I think the issue is that most of these are either indie passion projects or a cash grab from a small to medium sized studio. Thanks to content creators and everyone being extremely vocal about their experience with the games, you can easily figure out and ignore the shovelwares so it doesn't bother me much. Out of all these farm sims, only Sunnyside has managed to be a disappointing purchase for me due to its poor execution on a fairly interesting idea. Otherwise, I've managed to do well to avoid the obvious shovelwares.

I don't know what's wrong but majority of the games just don't feel complete even they get out of the early access period. Coral Island seems to have a lot more content than the DS HM games but it still doesn't feel complete. I feel like this is an issue with pretty much every farm sim as of late. They have lots of ideas that don't connect to each other and as a result of wanting to be the ultimate farm sim like SDV, they sacrifice on fleshing out the features a lot.

[Terranigma Freak]

As for Natsume's HM, it's always been really fun, actually. Even the first one, Lost Valley. The games were UGLY, and somewhat glitchy, and very lacking in the social department, but the farming was extremely fun. I daresay the farming was even more fun in the first game than it has become in Winds of Anthos (which I just finished a few days ago and still have LOADS left to do in post-game.) The terrain and altitude and water conditions and the fertilizers and the terraforming...it was fascinating farming. Skytree Village was the same over again, but smoother and a bit better-rounded, though still notably lacking in other ways, and still ugly.

But they were always really fun farming. I've liked them from the beginning. Anthos just looks way better, is all...and they're finally creating a little better of a world. It feels like a more memorable and homey place. The social events are still rather lacklustre, but I'm really in these games for the FARMING. (Probably few are as big a fan of the actual farming as I am. I live to raise bumps in the earth, throw out seeds, and darken the soil with sprinkling water, then alter crops with fertilizer. Not interested in the animals, tbh...I'm no rancher! I'm all about the PLANTS.)

I'll be honest, I've never played the Nastume HM game post divorce with Marvelous. I did think the terra forming looks interesting. The lack of time and the negativity surrounding them was what made me ignore them. I really should look into the past HM games. Winds of Anthos caught my eye because it looks like a well put together package even from the trailers.

I do think there are tons of unique farming games out there right now, though. Recently, you could look at Echoes of the Plum Grove. Even Kynseed had a unique spin with the peculiar, slightly dark fantasy setting and the fairytale story and the turning generations that pass things down from generation to generation. (I don't even remember the farming in that one, though.) They all use similar mechanics, because really...how much can you innovate farming? Till earth, plant seeds, water, fertilize. What else is there? I sure don't want to deal with pest or disease control on my digital farm! You could mechanize it, or turn it into big business, but there are already series that do that.

The thing about innovation is thinking outside the box. I know I'm being vague, but that's because I don't know how we can change up the formula in a way that'll capture people's attention. I don't know much about the games you listed, but I have heard of them. I'm personally playing PaleoPines and it's definitely unique, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea due to the lack of relationships with humans. I think we have to let the market decide on what's the next innovation that'll stick and for others to copy. There are plenty of games with unique ideas out there, but I guess they're pretty 1 off.

[venus14!]

As for Natsume's HM, it's always been really fun, actually. Even the first one, Lost Valley. The games were UGLY, and somewhat glitchy, and very lacking in the social department, but the farming was extremely fun. I daresay the farming was even more fun in the first game than it has become in Winds of Anthos (which I just finished a few days ago and still have LOADS left to do in post-game.) The terrain and altitude and water conditions and the fertilizers and the terraforming...it was fascinating farming. Skytree Village was the same over again, but smoother and a bit better-rounded, though still notably lacking in other ways, and still ugly.

But they were always really fun farming. I've liked them from the beginning. Anthos just looks way better, is all...and they're finally creating a little better of a world. It feels like a more memorable and homey place. The social events are still rather lacklustre, but I'm really in these games for the FARMING. (Probably few are as big a fan of the actual farming as I am. I live to raise bumps in the earth, throw out seeds, and darken the soil with sprinkling water, then alter crops with fertilizer. Not interested in the animals, tbh...I'm no rancher! I'm all about the PLANTS.)

I'll be honest, I've never played the Nastume HM game post divorce with Marvelous. I did think the terra forming looks interesting. The lack of time and the negativity surrounding them was what made me ignore them. I really should look into the past HM games. Winds of Anthos caught my eye because it looks like a well put together package even from the trailers.

I do think there are tons of unique farming games out there right now, though. Recently, you could look at Echoes of the Plum Grove. Even Kynseed had a unique spin with the peculiar, slightly dark fantasy setting and the fairytale story and the turning generations that pass things down from generation to generation. (I don't even remember the farming in that one, though.) They all use similar mechanics, because really...how much can you innovate farming? Till earth, plant seeds, water, fertilize. What else is there? I sure don't want to deal with pest or disease control on my digital farm! You could mechanize it, or turn it into big business, but there are already series that do that.

The thing about innovation is thinking outside the box. I know I'm being vague, but that's because I don't know how we can change up the formula in a way that'll capture people's attention. I don't know much about the games you listed, but I have heard of them. I'm personally playing PaleoPines and it's definitely unique, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea due to the lack of relationships with humans. I think we have to let the market decide on what's the next innovation that'll stick and for others to copy. There are plenty of games with unique ideas out there, but I guess they're pretty 1 off.

Maybe this one will be Good Innovation? :

Trade Tales... It seems like we will be Farming and then turning the Crops into Products and then running our own Shop...

It seems to be a really Ambitious Indie Game... :

It is a Farming Life Simulator but it is also so much more... It is also a Business Management Simulator and a Dating Simulator it seems since the Dating Mechanics seem more advanced than the usual HM/SOS Heart Events...

It looks very interesting, Cute and well done... I'm looking forward to it... :3

[Terranigma Freak]

As for Natsume's HM, it's always been really fun, actually. Even the first one, Lost Valley. The games were UGLY, and somewhat glitchy, and very lacking in the social department, but the farming was extremely fun. I daresay the farming was even more fun in the first game than it has become in Winds of Anthos (which I just finished a few days ago and still have LOADS left to do in post-game.) The terrain and altitude and water conditions and the fertilizers and the terraforming...it was fascinating farming. Skytree Village was the same over again, but smoother and a bit better-rounded, though still notably lacking in other ways, and still ugly.

But they were always really fun farming. I've liked them from the beginning. Anthos just looks way better, is all...and they're finally creating a little better of a world. It feels like a more memorable and homey place. The social events are still rather lacklustre, but I'm really in these games for the FARMING. (Probably few are as big a fan of the actual farming as I am. I live to raise bumps in the earth, throw out seeds, and darken the soil with sprinkling water, then alter crops with fertilizer. Not interested in the animals, tbh...I'm no rancher! I'm all about the PLANTS.)

I'll be honest, I've never played the Nastume HM game post divorce with Marvelous. I did think the terra forming looks interesting. The lack of time and the negativity surrounding them was what made me ignore them. I really should look into the past HM games. Winds of Anthos caught my eye because it looks like a well put together package even from the trailers.

I do think there are tons of unique farming games out there right now, though. Recently, you could look at Echoes of the Plum Grove. Even Kynseed had a unique spin with the peculiar, slightly dark fantasy setting and the fairytale story and the turning generations that pass things down from generation to generation. (I don't even remember the farming in that one, though.) They all use similar mechanics, because really...how much can you innovate farming? Till earth, plant seeds, water, fertilize. What else is there? I sure don't want to deal with pest or disease control on my digital farm! You could mechanize it, or turn it into big business, but there are already series that do that.

The thing about innovation is thinking outside the box. I know I'm being vague, but that's because I don't know how we can change up the formula in a way that'll capture people's attention. I don't know much about the games you listed, but I have heard of them. I'm personally playing PaleoPines and it's definitely unique, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea due to the lack of relationships with humans. I think we have to let the market decide on what's the next innovation that'll stick and for others to copy. There are plenty of games with unique ideas out there, but I guess they're pretty 1 off.

Maybe this one will be Good Innovation? :

Trade Tales... It seems like we will be Farming and then turning the Crops into Products and then running our own Shop...

It seems to be a really Ambitious Indie Game... :

It is a Farming Life Simulator but it is also so much more... It is also a Business Management Simulator and a Dating Simulator it seems since the Dating Mechanics seem more advanced than the usual HM/SOS Heart Events...

It looks very interesting, Cute and well done... I'm looking forward to it... :3

Oh, that is a cool idea. Keep in mind, I don't decide on what's innovative, the market has to embrace it. But I like the stronger focus on management aspect without sacrificing the life sim element.

Also, speak of the devil. The 3DS Harvest Moon games are coming to Switch.

https://gonintendo.com/contents/46218-h ... -pre-order

[Kikki]

I had heard they were going to, but I hadn't heard anything further.

Better to look at it directly on their store, imo, since there's a lot more pics and the order price available, there.

I'm disappointed that I have to buy them in a set. They're almost the same game, except in Skytree, they'd learned a little from the feedback on Lost Valley. I doubt I'd want both. I certainly would have to put a lot of time between them if I were to play both.

Still, cool. But I wish they were available separately. Wonder why it says 'ships April-June'. I guess they haven't got a set release date, yet?

It's both cuter and uglier than I remember. The character in TLV is cuter than I recall...I remember the big bobble heads being more grotesque. But the landscape graphics are even uglier than I remember. Perhaps because they're no longer on a tiny 3DS screen.

[JustABeautifulGuy]

I remember enjoying Skytree Village, but I'm not sure if I really want to double dip. I feel like my first experience on 3DS was more than enough. While Skytree Village did have some nice and unique mechanics I've yet to see in any other game, I think Natsume games actually got funner starting from One World, so it's really difficult to go back.

Honestly, this bundle would be a wonderful idea if both the games weren't so identical. I wish Marvelous did something like this for SoS1 and Trio of Towns. That's one bundle I can easily justify purchasing.

[Kikki]

Speaking of fairly unique farming sims...Mars Base is on 90% off right now on Switch. It's $2.59 CAD, so about $2 USD. It's a survival farming game...you have to desperately try to grow crops on Mars to keep your fellow colonists alive, since you can't restock...you have to use everything you can scrape together (they refer to 'poo-tatoes' in the description...bet you can guess what you have to do to get/make those!) to turn even one planter into arable soil to grow in.

I'm gonna get it. At that price, there's very little to lose. The sale ends very early morning on the 24th, I believe. In my time zone, anyway.

It doesn't review well on Steam, but at that price, I don't care. I want to try it.

[Milo]

As an aside, shovels aren't actually a tool I've seen a lot in farming sims, even though real farmers probably spend more time digging than they do breaking rocks with hammers.

[Kikki]

Not as much as you might think. I mean, some. And more than hammers, yes. Also, you'd use a pickaxe to break rocks, not a hammer. Pickaxes are scary, but really useful for digging out rocks and roots. A hammer would be nearly useless, and a shovel would break because you'd just be using the handle as a fulcrum. My dad used to get mad at a certain one of our employees all the time because he was always trying to pry things out of the ground with a shovel and he BROKE them, even after dad reminded him that that's what would happen and to quit it and use the right tool. (But farmers really are NOT miners. Nor are we fishers. And typically you aren't a rancher AND a crop farmer...in any significant way, you're one or the other.) But when planting, you don't use shovels. For flower gardening, it's hands, or maybe little hand spades if you're fastidious. You'd really only use a shovel when planting shrubs/trees/perennials.

For farming fields, it's machinery. I remember my grandpa had a big machine even for planting, with the plants being fed out through multiple chutes as it rolled forward, dropping one at regular spacing...though it depends on the crop. And that was 40 years ago. I daresay it's even LESS common to plant anything by hand as a farmer now than it was back then. Planting by hand is for home gardening. A little veggie garden in the back, or your flower garden in the front. It's not for sowing entire fields.

But I wouldn't want to run machinery to farm in my game. If I did, I could just play Farming Simulator, but that's a franchise that has never appealed to me.

[Terranigma Freak]

Speaking of fairly unique farming sims...Mars Base is on 90% off right now on Switch. It's $2.59 CAD, so about $2 USD. It's a survival farming game...you have to desperately try to grow crops on Mars to keep your fellow colonists alive, since you can't restock...you have to use everything you can scrape together (they refer to 'poo-tatoes' in the description...bet you can guess what you have to do to get/make those!) to turn even one planter into arable soil to grow in.

I'm gonna get it. At that price, there's very little to lose. The sale ends very early morning on the 24th, I believe. In my time zone, anyway.

It doesn't review well on Steam, but at that price, I don't care. I want to try it.

OH YES!!! Thank you for reminding me! This is exactly the kind of game I've been looking for. Growing to survive and scrapping together resources to keep people alive. It is less cozy though.