Talking About All Farming Sims Romantic Dialogue Issues.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

Are they still any bachelors and bachelorettes that you consider still romantic before and after marriage? I think farming sims have a huge problem with dialogue in their games and it feels robotic after marrying them.

I have personally moved my comment here so that we can talk about Harvest Moon, Story of Seasons, Rune Factory, Stardew Valley and even Littlewood I just like having veterans input and people who just started their Farming Sims adventure.

[midnighttherabbit]

Yeah dialogue is a major issue for me in these games, I can only name a few that have writing I'd really consider good and none of them are recent. RF4 I remember having some fun post-marriage dialogue, though.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

Yeah dialogue is a major issue for me in these games, I can only name a few that have writing I'd really consider good and none of them are recent. RF4 I remember having some fun post-marriage dialogue, though.

Oof that's bad when you can't named a recent game.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

While still being on the topic of why I think there's a problem with dialogue. I do like they're facial expressions when they're angry, sad, happy and excited when giving gifts from the main character that's a really good attention to details but I kinda wish some farming sims would just stop the marriage route in every single game and just let it be a farming sim for once.

[greensara]

A little late to the party, but I think part of the reason people like the Stardew Valley cast so much is because of the amount of creativity Concerned Ape put into the dialogue, especially for the candidates. Yes, it repeats, but there is a much bigger pool than most games. There are also mods that add even more, though those are written by other people.

You don't have to get married in farm sims, although it is typically marketed with what candidates are available. It would be nice to see if more games would allow you to choose a non-romantic bestie, like how in Stardew Valley you can have Krobus move in as a platonic roommate if you are unmarried (but he leaves if you do get married ).

[Kikki]

It's funny to me that anyone praises the Stardew cast, tbh. I just...never get it. I never liked any of them, I find them all boring. There's nothing interesting to me about Shane's alcoholism or any of that stuff. I think some people just find misfortune and drama more interesting than all the shiny happy people that are usually in Bokumono games. (Link included as a reference for the many no doubt too young to understand something from 1991. And an FYI: They did not intend the song ironically, no matter how much you may be inclined to think they did, particularly given REM's nature in most of the rest of their music.)

I read the dialogue in Stardew, but tbh, not a single bit of it has stuck with me. I can't even remember what any of it was about, unlike what I remember from other games. I don't even remember who is who, other than Elliot (the only candidate I'm into) and Shane (because everyone talks about him). I think Pam is an abusive alcoholic (lots of alcoholics in Stardew, I think there's a third one with an alcohol problem but there's is LESS of a problem so it's not focused on...not sure which one that is, though.) and someone is her unfortunate daughter, and someone's a carpenter, and someone's a scientist or lab person or something like that. There's a doctor and a shopkeeper, a homeless guy who likes being homeless (I actually like that take, though, there are a lot of real-world cases to back up its peculiar realism), a jock, a spoiled princess, a weird hippie, um...I'm running out now. A schoolteacher? This is the best I can do to summarize what I remember of the Stardew cast and the dialogue.

I know they ARE praised. Not disputing that, for sure. I've just never got it. I appreciate that he tried something different; I just don't happen to actually like the result, I guess. Or maybe he wasn't trying something different. I believe the game he aped (sorry, couldn't resist the pun!) also included an alcoholic and other not-so-shiny-happy-people content, too. Bokumono was grittier in the early days. But then, I didn't like Bokumono in the early days! So there ya go. I suppose this is a weird thing about me, but I find realism boring. Because it's all around me. Real, troubled situations and relationships are de rigeur. I don't find them interesting in fiction. I can just go see tons of it by stepping outside my door. I like the fun happy stuff in fantasy, where there's room to imagine all kinds of things in the background (or if there are hints of negative/bad/dangerous/problematic stuff laid here and there, but not explored in detail) if you want, but if you don't, you can just enjoy the wholesome happiness.

I do think it would be wonderful if you could have dedicated platonic relationships. Something more celebrated than just being normal friends. Asexuals love people just as much as anyone else, and sometimes want exclusive relationships just as much as anyone else...they just don't want the physical part.

And as many older couples know...the physical stuff fades and becomes much less important. At least in the ones that last long enough to experience that. Asexuals are just at that stage from the start, where all that matters is the love. They don't happen to need the physical part to create the initial depth to the bond. (But I know most people DO.)

So yeah, give platonic relationships a little more glory, life-sim devs of the world. Please. It would be appreciated!

EDIT: OH WAIT. I have this topic wrong, don't I? The question was 'are tehre any candidates you still consider romantic after marriage?" Right?

YES. Sanjay says things I love in his daily dialgue. Yuzuki always strikes me as romantic (he has a very poetic way of speaking, even just in his mood lines upon being shoulder-button-greeted, where when he's happy, his line is 'my heart is soaring today'. ) Ludus...well, his dialogue hinted more at strong physical attraction to the Player than the other kind of romance, but it was still cool. Elliot had lovely lines, post-marriage in Stardew, but again, like Yuzuki, Elliot was just a character with an air of the poetic about him, so he felt romantic by default, to me. People who openly and genuinely express their feelings for you always seem kind of romantic to me; not sure if that's what other people take as romance, though.

All of my favourites have been chosen for giving me that 'consistently feels romantic toward the player' feeling.

In SoS1, my fave was Nadi, but he didn't give off a 'romantic' vibe even when dating. But he was a tsundere. He was always palpably holding his feelings in, except when he so obviously loved you sooooo much that they just burst through the many cracks. I loved that. I used to tease his character constantly. He has a dialogue, you see, if you stay up really late, where eventually he'll complain that he's not going to bed because he's waiting for YOU to go to bed, because can't stand to sleep without you, and WHY DID YOU MAKE HIM SAY IT??? (yes, that latter part is actually in the dialogue, though not quite verbatim. I so love teasing Nadi!)

Ooh, okay, my pain has reached the 'casually intolerable' level, which you all will be happy to know means I have to shut up and stop editing this...in spite of the many typos I keep spotting... and go away.

[Scuttlefish]

I think one of the biggest issues for me, besides the bland dialogue you mentioned, is how often they give everything up just to be with you. This was a huge issue especially in the older games; they don't visit their friends or the shops, they don't go to work anymore, they don't feel like a part of the town and just become a robotic house-spouse. In Harvest Moon DS I loved Flora, but was horrified after marrying her to see that she quits working at the excavation site and spends all of her time at your house. It just feels... wrong, to force people to be a housewife/househusband just to marry me. In Rune Factory 4, I romanced Vishnal, but it breaks my heart that he says he will give up his dreams of being a butler to marry me! Like noooo why do you have to give up being a butler?? Similar feeling for the characters that talk about their dreams and ambitions, even desperately wanting to leave town, only for them to settle down and get married to you.

Some of the games, like FoMT, at least have the characters maintain their schedules for the most part, though Elly stops visiting her grandma on Wednesdays which is tragic!!!!

[Kikki]

In Trio of Towns, the one you marries keeps their former schedule. They're in your house when you wake up and for the first...I don't know, hour or so, long enough that they can have breakfast with you if you want, and they'll return for supper. But throughout the day, they're gone, on their usual tasks. I don't know about all of them, but I do know Ford will walk to Westown and back with your child on some days...he takes her to work. The daughter for sure, dunno if it's different if you have a son, but I doubt it would be.

[Milo]

I think farming sims have a huge problem with dialogue in their games and it feels robotic after marrying them.

I think the main issue is that the most convincing parts of the relationship come from heart events, rather than random day-to-day NPC chatter. There generally aren't any new events after you get married because, as far as the gameplay is concerned, that's mission accomplished and you have no further goals to achieve.

I suppose this is a weird thing about me, but I find realism boring. Because it's all around me. Real, troubled situations and relationships are de rigeur. I don't find them interesting in fiction. I can just go see tons of it by stepping outside my door. I like the fun happy stuff in fantasy, where there's room to imagine all kinds of things in the background (or if there are hints of negative/bad/dangerous/problematic stuff laid here and there, but not explored in detail) if you want, but if you don't, you can just enjoy the wholesome happiness.

Bad stuff might be worthwhile if the player has the opportunity to fix things, and especially if they're interesting problems. I'm not interested in "a boy, another person ruining his own life because he's stupid and there's nothing you can do about it".

I do think it would be wonderful if you could have dedicated platonic relationships. Something more celebrated than just being normal friends. Asexuals love people just as much as anyone else, and sometimes want exclusive relationships just as much as anyone else...they just don't want the physical part.

Eh, who's to say this isn't already the case? These aren't porn games. Many farming sims let you choose whether or not you want a child, and if you pick no, there's little to suggest that you and your spouse aren't just cuddling in bed.

Having your spouse explicitly ask you about exactly what kinds of nighttime activities you want to engage in would be raunchier than most farming sims ever get.

I think one of the biggest issues for me, besides the bland dialogue you mentioned, is how often they give everything up just to be with you. This was a huge issue especially in the older games; they don't visit their friends or the shops, they don't go to work anymore, they don't feel like a part of the town and just become a robotic house-spouse.

Ooh yes, I would love to see spouses continue to have meaningful lives after marriage. And maybe even talk to you about them. Many people seek comfort from their spouses after a stressful day at work, right?

Some jobs can also be done from home. Have them move their workshop into your house and continue there!

And for the ones that don't have existing jobs, just having them be more visibly proactive at helping out on the farm could be fun too.

It's possible to err too much in the other direction, though, when it seems like your spouse only ever stays at your house during bedtime and otherwise continues her previous schedule unchanged to the point of spending more time at her parents' house than yours. If your spouse is only at your house in the mornings and evenings, then it's even more important to make the dialogue during those mornings and evenings count.

[Milo]

"a boy, another person ruining his own life because he's stupid and there's nothing you can do about it"

Err, "oh boy". Oops.

Since I'm here anyway:

Similar feeling for the characters that talk about their dreams and ambitions, even desperately wanting to leave town, only for them to settle down and get married to you.

I think this one is kinda unavoidable, unless you actually want to have a long-distance relationship. The assumption is that they found something worth staying in town for after all. Realistically, the characters who are really set on wanting to leave town shouldn't be marriage candidates. (Unless you have the option to go with them.)

Sorry for the double post!

[Harvest Moon Kid]

A little late to the party, but I think part of the reason people like the Stardew Valley cast so much is because of the amount of creativity Concerned Ape put into the dialogue, especially for the candidates. Yes, it repeats, but there is a much bigger pool than most games. There are also mods that add even more, though those are written by other people.

You don't have to get married in farm sims, although it is typically marketed with what candidates are available. It would be nice to see if more games would allow you to choose a non-romantic bestie, like how in Stardew Valley you can have Krobus move in as a platonic roommate if you are unmarried (but he leaves if you do get married ).

For me I don't put mods in my games (I religiously play on my Nintendo Switch) but you do make a excellent point though.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

It's funny to me that anyone praises the Stardew cast, tbh. I just...never get it. I never liked any of them, I find them all boring. There's nothing interesting to me about Shane's alcoholism or any of that stuff. I think some people just find misfortune and drama more interesting than all the shiny happy people that are usually in Bokumono games. (Link included as a reference for the many no doubt too young to understand something from 1991. And an FYI: They did not intend the song ironically, no matter how much you may be inclined to think they did, particularly given REM's nature in most of the rest of their music.)

I read the dialogue in Stardew, but tbh, not a single bit of it has stuck with me. I can't even remember what any of it was about, unlike what I remember from other games. I don't even remember who is who, other than Elliot (the only candidate I'm into) and Shane (because everyone talks about him). I think Pam is an abusive alcoholic (lots of alcoholics in Stardew, I think there's a third one with an alcohol problem but there's is LESS of a problem so it's not focused on...not sure which one that is, though.) and someone is her unfortunate daughter, and someone's a carpenter, and someone's a scientist or lab person or something like that. There's a doctor and a shopkeeper, a homeless guy who likes being homeless (I actually like that take, though, there are a lot of real-world cases to back up its peculiar realism), a jock, a spoiled princess, a weird hippie, um...I'm running out now. A schoolteacher? This is the best I can do to summarize what I remember of the Stardew cast and the dialogue.

I know they ARE praised. Not disputing that, for sure. I've just never got it. I appreciate that he tried something different; I just don't happen to actually like the result, I guess. Or maybe he wasn't trying something different. I believe the game he aped (sorry, couldn't resist the pun!) also included an alcoholic and other not-so-shiny-happy-people content, too. Bokumono was grittier in the early days. But then, I didn't like Bokumono in the early days! So there ya go. I suppose this is a weird thing about me, but I find realism boring. Because it's all around me. Real, troubled situations and relationships are de rigeur. I don't find them interesting in fiction. I can just go see tons of it by stepping outside my door. I like the fun happy stuff in fantasy, where there's room to imagine all kinds of things in the background (or if there are hints of negative/bad/dangerous/problematic stuff laid here and there, but not explored in detail) if you want, but if you don't, you can just enjoy the wholesome happiness.

I do think it would be wonderful if you could have dedicated platonic relationships. Something more celebrated than just being normal friends. Asexuals love people just as much as anyone else, and sometimes want exclusive relationships just as much as anyone else...they just don't want the physical part.

And as many older couples know...the physical stuff fades and becomes much less important. At least in the ones that last long enough to experience that. Asexuals are just at that stage from the start, where all that matters is the love. They don't happen to need the physical part to create the initial depth to the bond. (But I know most people DO.)

So yeah, give platonic relationships a little more glory, life-sim devs of the world. Please. It would be appreciated!

EDIT: OH WAIT. I have this topic wrong, don't I? The question was 'are tehre any candidates you still consider romantic after marriage?" Right?

YES. Sanjay says things I love in his daily dialgue. Yuzuki always strikes me as romantic (he has a very poetic way of speaking, even just in his mood lines upon being shoulder-button-greeted, where when he's happy, his line is 'my heart is soaring today'. ) Ludus...well, his dialogue hinted more at strong physical attraction to the Player than the other kind of romance, but it was still cool. Elliot had lovely lines, post-marriage in Stardew, but again, like Yuzuki, Elliot was just a character with an air of the poetic about him, so he felt romantic by default, to me. People who openly and genuinely express their feelings for you always seem kind of romantic to me; not sure if that's what other people take as romance, though.

All of my favourites have been chosen for giving me that 'consistently feels romantic toward the player' feeling.

In SoS1, my fave was Nadi, but he didn't give off a 'romantic' vibe even when dating. But he was a tsundere. He was always palpably holding his feelings in, except when he so obviously loved you sooooo much that they just burst through the many cracks. I loved that. I used to tease his character constantly. He has a dialogue, you see, if you stay up really late, where eventually he'll complain that he's not going to bed because he's waiting for YOU to go to bed, because can't stand to sleep without you, and WHY DID YOU MAKE HIM SAY IT??? (yes, that latter part is actually in the dialogue, though not quite verbatim. I so love teasing Nadi!)

Ooh, okay, my pain has reached the 'casually intolerable' level, which you all will be happy to know means I have to shut up and stop editing this...in spite of the many typos I keep spotting... and go away.

You're totally fine I don't mind the little input that you don't like Stardew. Nadi was definitely a favorite of mine as well.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

I think one of the biggest issues for me, besides the bland dialogue you mentioned, is how often they give everything up just to be with you. This was a huge issue especially in the older games; they don't visit their friends or the shops, they don't go to work anymore, they don't feel like a part of the town and just become a robotic house-spouse. In Harvest Moon DS I loved Flora, but was horrified after marrying her to see that she quits working at the excavation site and spends all of her time at your house. It just feels... wrong, to force people to be a housewife/househusband just to marry me. In Rune Factory 4, I romanced Vishnal, but it breaks my heart that he says he will give up his dreams of being a butler to marry me! Like noooo why do you have to give up being a butler?? Similar feeling for the characters that talk about their dreams and ambitions, even desperately wanting to leave town, only for them to settle down and get married to you.

Some of the games, like FoMT, at least have the characters maintain their schedules for the most part, though Elly stops visiting her grandma on Wednesdays which is tragic!!!!

I am so glad you mentioned that in your first paragraph.

[Kikki]

I do think it would be wonderful if you could have dedicated platonic relationships. Something more celebrated than just being normal friends. Asexuals love people just as much as anyone else, and sometimes want exclusive relationships just as much as anyone else...they just don't want the physical part.

Eh, who's to say this isn't already the case? These aren't porn games. Many farming sims let you choose whether or not you want a child, and if you pick no, there's little to suggest that you and your spouse aren't just cuddling in bed.

Having your spouse explicitly ask you about exactly what kinds of nighttime activities you want to engage in would be raunchier than most farming sims ever get.

I was too tired last night to gather the tiny scraps of my IQ to tell you why I find this reply so disingenuous. Or flippant. Or just not understanding of how it really is, I suppose. I don't know you IRL, and I can't read your mind, so I don't know if you were deliberately belittling or overlooking the obvious flaws in that idea.

Why would I want to cuddle in bed with my friend? My best friend, yes, whom I am deeply loyal to, think about all the time, and who is the most important person in the world to me, but...well, why? Did something tragic happen? Am I having a bout of anxiety or something? Then I might want to sacrifice the comfort of my uninterrupted-by-any-issues-but-my-own, gloriously solo sleep in exchange for that.

Honestly, that was just my first reaction, as ME. There are married asexual couples, and some of them DO sleep in the same bed. (There are probably even asexual couples who have a physical relationship, since we run the gamut, just like everyone else...the one hard and fast rule is that we don't experience sexual attraction, but some do have physical urges and don't mind sharing them. So I hear, anyway. I'm just not one of those people.)

That's only the surface of my issue with the view that it would be satisfactory to play make-believe, that these are platonic relationships, when I can see every game day that they are not. You probably aren't asexual and don't see what I see, all the points were you can clearly FEEL that it's just not like that. It's quite obvious that the devs mean for these to be standard romantic relationships and I can't see my own feelings reflected in them. They just don't fit.

Of course, it's not like the devs put any effort into making the same-gender pairings feel 'real', either. They just removed the restriction, like that trick some freaky people can do where they whisk the tablecloth out from under a full table setting without so much as rattling a single dish or piece of silverware, let alone crashing every piece of it onto the floor (which is what I would do if I tried it). They set the table for standard romantic relationships, and they never actually set a place for anything else, they just gave a flourish and whipped that tablecloth out, and everybody cheered because hey, at least now the trick is done and they were HUNGRY and let's just go eat!

Long story short, pretending these are platonic relationships would be about as satisfying to me as it no doubt was for same-gender folks to cross dress their player character, back in the SoS1 days. Make their character the opposite gender to their preferred gender, but dress them up so they LOOKED like the same gender. But the game is 100% coded to hetero, so the immersion was broken regularly.

Anyway, there's more, but I just don't have the brain power for it with all these prescription changes and lack of sleep and stuff I'm not used to yet. Suffice it to say that I don't find that idea satisfying at all. I'd rather just play them as they actually are than play that kind of pretend.

When I asked the devs to give platonic relationships some glory, I didn't mean 'let's just pretend they even know we exist'. I meant really write in a deep, moving platonic connection. It really has its own beauty, that can't be felt at all in just glossing over a standard romance.

Sorry if that lacked cohesion. The past three years in particular, I find I've been losing the ability to express myself clearly, and it's definitely worse when I'm low on quality sleep. Hopefully it got the general idea across.

[Harvest Moon Kid]

I do think it would be wonderful if you could have dedicated platonic relationships. Something more celebrated than just being normal friends. Asexuals love people just as much as anyone else, and sometimes want exclusive relationships just as much as anyone else...they just don't want the physical part.

Eh, who's to say this isn't already the case? These aren't porn games. Many farming sims let you choose whether or not you want a child, and if you pick no, there's little to suggest that you and your spouse aren't just cuddling in bed.

Having your spouse explicitly ask you about exactly what kinds of nighttime activities you want to engage in would be raunchier than most farming sims ever get.

I was too tired last night to gather the tiny scraps of my IQ to tell you why I find this reply so disingenuous. Or flippant. Or just not understanding of how it really is, I suppose. I don't know you IRL, and I can't read your mind, so I don't know if you were deliberately belittling or overlooking the obvious flaws in that idea.

Why would I want to cuddle in bed with my friend? My best friend, yes, whom I am deeply loyal to, think about all the time, and who is the most important person in the world to me, but...well, why? Did something tragic happen? Am I having a bout of anxiety or something? Then I might want to sacrifice the comfort of my uninterrupted-by-any-issues-but-my-own, gloriously solo sleep in exchange for that.

Honestly, that was just my first reaction, as ME. There are married asexual couples, and some of them DO sleep in the same bed. (There are probably even asexual couples who have a physical relationship, since we run the gamut, just like everyone else...the one hard and fast rule is that we don't experience sexual attraction, but some do have physical urges and don't mind sharing them. So I hear, anyway. I'm just not one of those people.)

That's only the surface of my issue with the view that it would be satisfactory to play make-believe, that these are platonic relationships, when I can see every game day that they are not. You probably aren't asexual and don't see what I see, all the points were you can clearly FEEL that it's just not like that. It's quite obvious that the devs mean for these to be standard romantic relationships and I can't see my own feelings reflected in them. They just don't fit.

Of course, it's not like the devs put any effort into making the same-gender pairings feel 'real', either. They just removed the restriction, like that trick some freaky people can do where they whisk the tablecloth out from under a full table setting without so much as rattling a single dish or piece of silverware, let alone crashing every piece of it onto the floor (which is what I would do if I tried it). They set the table for standard romantic relationships, and they never actually set a place for anything else, they just gave a flourish and whipped that tablecloth out, and everybody cheered because hey, at least now the trick is done and they were HUNGRY and let's just go eat!

Long story short, pretending these are platonic relationships would be about as satisfying to me as it no doubt was for same-gender folks to cross dress their player character, back in the SoS1 days. Make their character the opposite gender to their preferred gender, but dress them up so they LOOKED like the same gender. But the game is 100% coded to hetero, so the immersion was broken regularly.

Anyway, there's more, but I just don't have the brain power for it with all these prescription changes and lack of sleep and stuff I'm not used to yet. Suffice it to say that I don't find that idea satisfying at all. I'd rather just play them as they actually are than play that kind of pretend.

When I asked the devs to give platonic relationships some glory, I didn't mean 'let's just pretend they even know we exist'. I meant really write in a deep, moving platonic connection. It really has its own beauty, that can't be felt at all in just glossing over a standard romance.

Sorry if that lacked cohesion. The past three years in particular, I find I've been losing the ability to express myself clearly, and it's definitely worse when I'm low on quality sleep. Hopefully it got the general idea across.

First I hope you got some rest, and secondly I wish they put in more same-« Chicken Hugging » marriages in Farming Sims rather then have people mod it in.