Realistic Spin-off?

[LittleLeopardess]

I'd like to make my own person, have a differrent baby for each person you can marry, have more festivals and events, and make the village a little bigger. That's it really.

Oh oh I like that lol and even have all the rivals have a kid too. I don't like being the only one who can have a kid. It'd be more exciting to wait for them to pop too and for our kids to actually interact.

[KrystalKairi]

1) I think it would be a bit silly to make it impossible to save in the minds. What if you actually happen to have something to do but don't want to lose your place? Also, the game designers don't want to pick how to play the game for you, if you want to play it without saving and reloading you don't have to.

2) I like when time stops inside. Just like with number one, if you think it makes the game too easy you don't have to do it that way.

3) I like the idea of a bit more freedom with villager schedules, and it would be really nice for everyone to not just disappear from 6am on festival days.

4) Some interactions would be nice, but too many would make the game a bit too realistic.

5) I like the idea of having some kind of better organization system for the backpack. However, I don't think it should be quite as realistic as by weight. After all, if you bring that up then you'd start to wonder why you could shove a flower, a tomato and a couple rocks in your backpack and everything would come out fine.

6) As for the teleport stone, I think it's a really nice way to save a bit of in game time. Sometimes you just need to get somewhere right then or you'll miss whatever you're waiting for and I think makin git calculate in game time to get there would be a bit over done.

7) I do like the idea of all of those things but the problem would be at the beginning of the game it would be nearly impossible to keep up with all of that kind of stuff. After all, in the beginning you're trying to improve your farm, having to stop to run to the inn to eat (since you don't start off with a kitchen) could be a bit of a bother.


And yeah, I wish they brought back your rivals being able to have kids.

[julesxoxo]

]


1. I don't see why. It's a farming sim, but it is good in the instance that it's not just a farming sim. You can date someone, go mining, or fishing. And frusrating for younger players-they don't have the patience to water 100 crops each day, and are eager to like give Marlin a gift.

2. Yes indoor time stop. The time goes rather quickly, you know.

3. Love it, but confusing.

4. Amazing and fun.

5. See 3.

6. YES.

7. Cool, but will get annoying!

[MFoMT lover]

Well, I am quite the cheater. I would be really uninterested in Harvest Moon games if time went on indoors. Save/reload in the excavtion site/mine is quite a necessity. In mine trips, I save before I go in in case the whole trip was a waste of time and valuable stamina resources. The needs would annoy me because of all the issues I have in The Sims. Long stories. I'm playing HM to get away from the real world's ways, not to control someone living like in the real world. Sorry.

On the positive side, I would love to see the other villagers get out there and work. Kai should actually serve the food rather than it suddenly appearing over my farmer's head.

[didactician]

First of all, thank you for all the feedbacks and honest opinions.

There are certain things I would like to add and clarify:


1) CLARIFICATION ON "SPIN-OFF"

When I stated "spin-off," I did not mean that what I wrote would applied to a next HMDS2, but to a new Harvest Moon subtitle. I.e. like how "Rune Factory" is a RPG-oriented spin-off. This way, for people who prefer HMDS to stay the same (no time flow, save/load trick, accessories with extreme conveniences), they can still have the game they want.

2) TIME FLOW, SAVE/LOAD

I would like to propose that

a) Indoor time flows 1/3rd of the outdoor speed. This way mining, tending the animals and walking around indoor won't consume game time away too fast.
b) Tools used indoor improve the skill bar 1/3rd slower than using them outdoor.
c) Some of you voiced that without save/load, finding rare items would be too hard. Well I agree, but it doesn't mean that the creator could have bumped up the chance to find rare items to counterbalance the time flow and the save/load function disabled.
d) Instead of having save/load in mines, you can "suspend" the game in case you need to do something important in real life.
e) Imagine with time flow and no save/load function, you get "lucky" and find a pink diamond. Imagine how great it would be. With save/load function, it eliminates the escatic feeling players could've when they actually find something.
f) Some of you said that I can choose "not to cheat if I want." But honestly, being a perfectionist as I am, if there's a cheat then I will have to use it in order to make my savefile as perfect as possible. It's better to take these extremely convenient things off, so we can focus on the hearts of the game--mingling with the villagers, making a living, and improving our houses.

3) "REALISTIC" DOES NOT MEAN INCREASED CHALLENGE

I do not see how a more realistic spin-off would be "harder" (though I like the idea of having "easy" "medium" and "hard" option for the game). True, it will take more time to accomplish everything in the game, but it will force us to rotate seasons more. Why? Because with casino, mining, spam gifts-giving on birthdays, we can easily complete most of the things on first year.
Don't any of you feel things become much less interesting when all villagers are at 255 friendship point and you have already married, and bought most of the accessories to display in your boxes? This game has imbalanced economy, mining and casino are much more effective than farming crops and animals.
By letting indoor time to flow and by disabling save/load function, players can no longer make easy $$$ via casino/mining. Coupled with Sleep Point I suggested, it forces players to spend time more wisely, and not just "oh my fatigue/stamina is low so I'll just buy 5 stacks of grape juices with the money I won easily from the casino."
In HMDS, you can teleport and give gifts to all villagers in one day because you know where and when exactly they're going to be, and with necklace tool you can practically do farming in a time stop. Gamers who have perfectionist tendency would certainly abuse these options, and what happen is that they will likely find themselves bored after the first year or two because there are too many tools that allow them to complete all the tasks they want in a single day.

The important thing to me is to reduce time in our real life (since I'm 24 years old and working Mon-Sat, my free time is valuable) while enhancing the importance of game's time. By giving the villages more randomized schedules and by having gift effecting on different situations, it makes us unable to visit all of them in a mere day unless you are really lucky or if you abandon all your farming works that day.
This would make players really "feel the day" instead of just thinking "oh it's just a new day, I just need to take care all my plants, animals, give gifts to everyone then there's nothing else." Since there are more luck involved than just simply save/load, what happens each day is less monotonous, and I think, would enrich the game's replayability.

This leads me to another purpose: Save and Load (outside of mine) should be limited per day. I said this so that the players wouldn't able to spam save/load to predict where the character would go. I.e. if Muffy has 1% chance on a sunny day to go to beach, but it won't really be 1% if you can constantly save/load until that 1% become true.



Okay gotta go back to work now, but I'll come in and explain some stuffs that other people seem to be confused or what I didn't explain clearly before

[Moon Droop 43]

I kinda get what your saying, but I don't like the mood bars. There to much like Sims for me, plus you don't get a bathroom in the beginning of the game so there would be no way to uhh "releave" yourself. I like the idea of having villagers do things like Vesta watering crops or Carter using a hoe on the ground.

[H*M*Lover]

I sort of understand what your saying, but there is no kitchen or bathroom at the beginning of the game, so you have to either always find a villager's bathroom and go to a restaraunt...if yo had the ability to buy cheap box lunches from Karen, that would be nice--i.e., 10 G will buy you one lunch box...not as replenishong as at Ruby'sor Kai's, but still enough to get through the day!

[Saruki]

So, mostly, you want the Sims mixed with Harvest Moon? .____.

You know, there's only so much information that can be packed into these things. It'd have to be for something like Wii or Playstation.

[Fantabuleux]

I definatley love the idea of making your own person. Like what if you want to make the person to have green eyes? Black hair? Hair wavy? It would just be fun to be able to personalize your own person. Also have more outfits than just overalls. Like maybe be able to choose your pants and shirt? I dunno, just an idea.

Also. I was thinking. I hate that your child never grows up fully to an adult. Wouldn't it be kind or cool to have generations? Not to bring the sims into the game, but really. It would be nice if your child grew up to look like the father and a little bit the mother. And the other villagers would actually be able to come visit your house when they want to and say 'Wow. What a beautiful baby. She has your eyes and his hair!'. Also. Something realistic. does your child really grown into an toddler in three days? No. You should be able to have a crib. Not a huge bed. And have a couple resting days after birth for you, while the father takes care of the baby. You should be able to take your child on walks in a stroller. Or something. And death. It would be nice if people had children and eventually died. So there are more people to talk to. A new generation to be able to reproduce with. It would definatley spice up the game. I would personally look forward to seeing who is in the next generation.

It would take a lot of planning and effort to make this game, but really. Sometimes the 'ole game gets a teensey bit drab. I agree-- you should send this to someone.

[Guest]

1. I think it would be annoying to not be able to save in a mine. Getting to the bottom of the last mine already takes a couple hours anyway.
2. I like the indoor time stop. It's there so that you have a break. I don't have Rune Factory though.
3. That's a good idea, because it gives you something to do. I wouldn't want it to be totally random though. That would just be annoying.
4. That's a good idea. That way Vesta could actually work instead of staring at crops that seem to grow on their own.
5. Yeah, the stacking gets kind of annoying. I think the weights system would be okay, but the rucksacks would have to be cheaper.
6. I like that system of teleportation. It sounds well thought out to me. The method for watering and planting sounds a lot less frustrating. Having to water plants one by one when you first start the game gets very tiresome.
7. I think certain things like that would make it too much like another game franchise, The Sims.

[FairyFairuza]

^ That was me. I think that having generations and character customization would be great, as well as varying difficulties. And I would like it if you could but different actual styles of clothes, not just different color ones.

[HarvestAngel]

I get what your saying, but the time continuing indoors would be a idea,like say your in the 4rt mine and your nearly to the bottem but then you notice its 5:50am then you end up in your house.

^ That was me. I think that having generations and character customization would be great, as well as varying difficulties. And I would like it if you could but different actual styles of clothes, not just different color ones.

I agree, just generations and custimizing your person. And being able to change the skin tone of your person, like if you were negro which person would you pick Claire or Jill?

[FinalianX]

You want to save some real time, yet your suggestions are pure time busters.

[didactician.]

You want to save some real time, yet your suggestions are pure time busters.

For example?

I'd appreciate any constructive criticisms. I do not mind honest opinions, but you know, you guys can help me think as well. This thread is of course based on my "ideal," but my intention is so get ideas started--I want us to share what each of us would like to see in future HM games.
Some of you do not wish for change, which I understand--but as I stated before, this is a "Spin-Off." Having a spin-off does not mean that Natsume would no longer release future Harvest Moon titles that have the same quality as the current one.

And when you guys have caught some weaknesses in my idea, you know, you can insert your own creativity on how to implement those ideas better.
For example, some of you are concerned that the starting house does not have a toilet and bath yet, thus Bladder/Sanitary point would prove difficult to deal with. Why not be creative? I can think of many ways to tackle these issues--the game can implement public toilet and public bathhouse. Public toilet would be free, though inconvenient since you have to spend walk/run time there. Public bathhouse costs only 10G per entry and allows you to mingle with other villagers present (thus even though it's less convenient than the one you would build for your house later, it is an interactive place).
Another one is that what would happen if you are 5:50 am in the mine and time flow? Would all efforts to go deep into the mine be lost since you would be warped back to your own house at 6:00 am? Well why not break that tradition? Why not just let the days "bleeds into one another"? For example, you can walk around the village from continuously from 5-7 am no problem. This is why I suggested Sleep Point. You do not need to be warped back into the house at 6:00 am anymore, but you will need to Sleep eventually otherwise you would pass out. Unlike fatigue point which could be cured simply by taking food, Sleep Point needs you to sleep.
And if you are concerned that how events like Gotz or Thomas delivering your TV shopping item would trigger, well for Gotz he could have an appointment time to come in and see you. For example, you could have specified him to come at 9am in front of your house to meet you there. There could be an "organizer" tab in your touch screen where you can view your daily appointments--like how Nami will come over to help you cook at 6pm, etc. If you forgot to review your schedule, then the villagers just leave the appointed place with their passion/friendship point lower. Villagers who have better friendship point with you might wait around for 40 minutes, while the one who are just mere acquaintances only wait for 20 minutes. And the next time you see them you will see them in bad mood, and their dialog might be hostile to you, etc. For Thomas' delivery, since he is on a leisure schedule, you would be lucky to catch him delivering things to your door--otherwise he will just leave the shelfs, tool boxes, etc. in front of your house and you can carry them in by yourself later.

Another point I want to clarify before I go on further, is the level of the mines. You guys are concerned that without the save/load function, Hunger point introduced (i.e. not being able to spam eating any longer), time flow, it would make going down to the bottom floor too hard.
Well, if you caught my drift, I dislike those crazy "65325th floors, killing 50 of your own animals, ship 100,000 items of the same type" ideas since they are tedious and real-time consuming. The mines could be of 10, 30, 50, and 99 floors instead. Rare items are then would be easier to find since there are less floors to search, but with time flow, in order to go down into 99th floor you would need to prepare yourself good, and camping equipment is necessary since you would need to sleep inside the mine to keep up with your Sleep Point. (this makes the game challenging, but not TEDIOUS)

Let me clearly state I (again) that I am NOT trying to make it into the Sims. Even if you feel that the game would borrow too much from the Sims, why not do it if it makes the game better? And it's not like we would be borrowing the exact concept from the Sims, because by integrate these points system to a distinct game like Harvest Moon, these points would serve different purposes than the Sims franchise.


I am going to further elaborate why I think these points would enrich the game:

HUNGER POINT / NUTRITION POINT

PROS
- Make more use of your cooking skill since you need a balanced diet in a day. You can no longer spend a day without doing nothing, eating nothing, and just go to sleep.
- Eating at the correct time would replenish your stamina/fatigue more effectively. During 6-8 am (breakfast), 12-2 pm (lunch), 6-8 pm (dinner), food will replenish you better.
- Eating heavy food like pizza would fill you up better than a grass. But sometimes, like in mines, you would want to eat things that replenish high stamina/fatigue and fill you little so you can eat a lot of them.
- With the emphasis on the importance of having a meal, it allows players to think more about "interactive environment," like going to dinner at Ruby's and mingle with people. Or how you can ask your date to lunch with you by the goddess pond.
- Allow the game to have a bigger variety of items such as kitchenwares. For example, TV shopping can sell you kitchen cabinet where you keep your forks, plates, etc. You started with 2 sets of kitchenwares, but as you collect more money, you can buy silver plates, gold chopsticks etc. that would improve your "mood point" or even enhance the food's "stamina/fatigue" replenishment with better quality plates. Also as you buy more plates, you can invite more people to dine at your house. This way table would become an important item to have, because for some guys/girls you are wooing, in order to trigger certain heart events you need to be able to accommodate them to have dinner at your house with their favorite food.
- To prevent easy mining. For example, your character ate too much and now refusing to eat anything else, your fatigue is nearly maxed out but you only have heavy meals in your rucksack. You need to wait to digest. There could be an option where the game asks you how long would you like to wait. You can say 30 minutes and the game would calculate how much Hunger Point would drop. This way, with game time 1/3rd the speed in the mine, you don't need to wait in your real time for long before you are digested enough to eat food in your rucksack to replenish your energy. This way it means that you need to be smart about what food you bring in what situations.
- I am sure you guys can think up of something more

CONS
- Some of you voiced concern that once you started out the game, you are practically poor so how would you afford eating healthily? I suggest that you can start out with a couple of rice balls and breads, or that in the beginning Takakura offers you dinners with him until he feels that you are financially stable enough (i.e. Takakura's AI can based on your "farming point"--if your farming point is high enough, he will stop treating you to free food)
- No more spam drinking to completely rejuvenate your energy when mining. Well, I know that many of you would disagree, but this is my personal preference (in making the game more realistic, and to prevent mining from completely overshadow farming).

BLADDER POINT / SANITARY POINT

Pros
- More realistic
- Finally put toilet and baths to good use
- Coupled with Mood Point, having good bladder and sanitary level improve your mood. Sanitary level also improve how villagers would interact with you--so you would see a more varied reactions from them.
- Again, this opens for more house upgrades, TV shopping option like buying golden sink, golden bath (which would improve your mood/sanitary better), or install a medical cabinet in your bathroom.

Cons
- Irritating. Well, I certainly agree to a degree that bladder point would be quite irritating. . . but it's a way to prove that your friends like you enough to let you use their bathroom :p
- No toilet/bathroom in the beginning. As I suggested earlier, we could have public toilet and public bath. Two great excuses to "bump" into other villagers which would lead to a variety of possible events and dialogs.

SLEEP POINT

Pros
- Realistic. You can no longer stay up all day all night and just eat the right food.
- Forces game time per day to be shorter, which means you can do LESS in a day, which in turn makes the game LASTS LONGER (i.e. it would be impossible to complete all tasks within the first year, thus you will see seasons rotate faster--you will always be looking forward to a new day.)
- Allows days to bleed into one another. No longer you will need to warp back to your house at 6:00 am. You can stay out, as long as your sleep point is not completely gone.
- Bed upgrades can improve your sleep point maximum.
- In the beginning when your bed is still normal, you can rent out a room at the Inner Inn which improves Sleep Point (but would cost money).

Cons
- Less game time per day. Well, this is depended whether you agree with my idea to make the game more realistic or not. If you are the type of players who like abusing time stop, then I hear you.


TIME COMPARISON

Think about this:

(I) Time Stop indoor, No Sleep Point, Hunger Point (Current system)

a) Walking, Farming, Scavenging outdoor: 15 minutes real time spent, game time spent up to whole day.
b) Mining and replenishing your stamina/fatigue without any limit on how much you could eat: 30 minutes real time spent, 0 minute game time.
c) Fishing indoor using tool necklace: 5 minutes real time spent, 0 minute game time.

Total real time spent: 50 minutes per game day

(II) Time Flow indoor at 1/3rd speed, Sleep Point and Hunger Point introduced (Proposed system)

a) You spend 10 minutes in your real time per game day. With the introduction of "farming mode" and teleportation consumes game time, your real time spent is less because you no longer need to do tedious tasks like tending to animal one by one, harvesting crops one by one. While your game time per day stays the same, these new modes would allow you to optionally reduce the real time while able you to keep up with your farm's productivity.
Same with spa. Dipping into hot spring should ask you how much game time you want to spend. For example, you pick an hour, the game calculates you how much fatigue it would recover. If you confirm this action, your character just gets an animation dipping into the water, then the next instant it cuts to you wearing your clothes again. Instead of just having to wait 3 minutes in your real time for one hour of game's bathing, you only spend 5 seconds real time instead. Of course there would be an option to turn this function ON/OFF so players who prefer "passing their real time" can still have what they want.
b) You spend 20 minutes in your real time per game day mining and fishing. You can only spend so much time in mines with time flowing indoor, thus this would not allow you to spam mining for quick money.

Total real time spent: 30 minutes per game day

FLAWS:
At this point people can argue that while my hypothesis would be accurate in the beginning of the game, it would not be true later on.
For example, once you have dug up all rare items and maxing out your tools, there's no need to spend much real time in mines anymore. The current system, in long run, will consume less time since you can complete all tasks earlier than the proposed system.
But that is exactly the problem. I want the game to DISTRIBUTE times per day fairly. I do not want us to be able to mine the heck out of your first week and be able to afford house upgrades really fast. I want the game to still be fresh even on the 3rd year because there are no easy $$$--everyday is a constant saving up. I really hope all of you understand my point here, because this is one of my main argument why the game should tone down mining and let time flows indoor.
My arguments FOR the proposed system:

1) Game would still be fresh on later years since you cannot gain money so fast.
2) Economics of the game would be more balanced (i.e. no 50 pink diamonds per day allowed anymore)--farming would be a "consistent way to earn money" while mining would be a "try it for your luck effort." But when averaging out the real time for these two options, we should gain approximately the same amount of money per time spent.


EXTRA: COOKING IDEA!

C1) Cooking should consume time.
C2) Different recipes take different amount of time to cook.
C3) While cooking a long dish like making a stew, during that cooking time you can leave your kitchen and do other chores.
C4) There would be an alarm clock which notifies you when the cooking is about to be done, thus you would know when to return home so the food wouldn't get overcooked.
C5) You might ask? What if I'm too far away to return on time? Well, that would be too bad--unless you can assign a harvest sprite or other villagers to help with your cooking! More reasons to befriend people/sprites.
C6) Certain dishes would improve quality depending on the time. For example, green curry takes only 20 minutes, but you can buy a slow-cooker from TV shopping which allows curry to be cooked over night and it will restore better fatigue/stamina, improve mood better, etc.
C7) While you can discover dishes on your own, hearing recipes from villagers, digging recipes from mines, fishing out bottled recipes, watching cooking channel will allow recipes to be improved. Some villagers will tell you about "shortcuts" which would reduce cooking time, some will tell you techniques which improve the taste.
C8) You can dig out ancient mugs, plates from excavation site. Since you would be able to invite people to come to your house (and help you with the cooking), you can assign which type of plates to use with whom. For example, ancient chinas to use with Carter because he likes artifacts, gold plates for Lumina, flower patterns plates for girls, etc. Kitchenwares can be obtained various ways: excavation, digging random field, gift from people, winning festival, TV shopping, Van, fishing, etc.
C9) Junk food like popcorns, sweets might not be good for Nutrition/Hunger/Stamina/Fatigue point, but are good for Mood Point. This will give you a reason to cook up junk food over healthy, high energy food from times to times.
C10) Freshly cooked meal has better quality. I.e. if you eat it or give it away within the first 20 minutes, it will have more impact.
C11) Cooking/Invite Mode. Like the "farming mode," this will allow you to be efficient with cooking. When you enter this mode, it will check your "appointment" on who's coming to dinner at your place, you will assign what dishes will put out, what kitchenwares to use with which guess, and check whether there are any sprite or friends helping you preparing food--then the game will calculate the amount of game time needed for you to spend, how much items from the fridges/rucksacks are needed, how much stamina/health/mood/nutrition will affect you, how much stamina/fatigue required to cook, etc. This will make us save time preparing food one by one (i.e. tedious) in order to accommodate your guests.
C12) That's it for my crazy wishful thinking for now!

[princess_me.x]

We don't want HM to turn into a Sims game.
Especially not the handheld Sim games, eh HM is way better.
And plus the whole bladder things would get annoying, it's annoying in Sims as it is.
It will distract meh from my farm D: